M+ key scaling is whack

Run an M10 with guildies, jump on Discord and talk strats, CC this, interrupt that, pull these packs together, pop lust now and chain into the next 2 packs before lust ends, drag the emissary into the next group before killing it and so forth, get my M10 to an M12.

Run the M12, same people, same group, same comp, same characters, eventually finish the key in 1.5 hours.

Decide yesterday we were going to run with some alts, one being just over 600 iLVL pulling the same damage I am doing as a tank, pug some random in who is also doing tank levels of damage, talk absolute garbage on discord without actually concentrating on what is happening in the key, still double time it with only three deaths, technically 2 since one death was at the last run up to the fourth boss in SoB.

It’s a little much in how quickly keys can scale and a lot much with how much gear and coordination you actually need when you start looking at doing M12s on time.

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Nah just means you and/or group are severely lacking in mechanical execution. You can survive a lot of mechanical failures in 10s that you can’t in 12s.

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This is the exact reason that keys should never deplete. People should be encouraged to attempt a key frequently and without worry. We can practice mythic raid, and should also be able to reliably practice m+.

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Keys deplete for a reason and the same group utterly failing and taking 1.5 hours on a 12 after timing the 10 means the system is working. They should be doing an 11 or working on mechanics in a 10.

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An 11 is not really comparable to a 12, which I know you already understand.

Imagine wiping on a mythic raid boss and then having to clear the same thing on the heroic before being allowed to pull it again.

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It’s a step between a 10 and a 12, which was the point.

Also, I would argue that a 12 is easier than an 11 because there’s zero affix-mechanic overlaps.

False equivalent argument. It would be wiping on a bossing and doing that boss over again, like it is now.

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Imagine not getting loot for failed timers in m+.

The biggest difference between 10 and 12 is reactionary. You have to know when damage is coming and use abilities accordingly. No popping a defense after the damage has happened.

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okay, but how did the 11 go?

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No shot. The damage requirement between the two key levels is a step change of difference. Without a source, including the positive buffs from the affix, I’ve seen it be somewhere like 30% or more, which is substantially higher than 10 → 11.

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That’s fine, give players a choice between completion with downgrading the key, and only timing it without downgrades.

I haven’t needed loot from these dungeons in months.

There’s a buff, but there’s also very bad overlaps where the affix leads to very bad situations or wasted CDs that are needed for other mechanics. The 12 is just pure scaling with no affixes.

Also why are you comparing a 11->12 to a 10->11 obviously the former will be a bigger jump. Keys scale non linearly just like how a 10->11 is bigger than a 9->10.

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I agree that the affix creates occasional problems, and personally enjoy not dealing with it at all in +12 keys, but still think 11s are substantially easier than 12s.

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No. System is fine as it is. Stop making stupid comparisons

You are entitled to your opinion. Likewise, I will continue to think 12s are easier than 11s.

Regardless, the OP shouldn’t be surprised that they failed a 12 after timing a 10. The other factor here is that they timed a 10 in one dungeon and ran the 12 in another. We don’t know what the other dungeon was and if they are just as proficient in it (which clearly they were not).

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I see nothing wrong with making comparisons or suggesting changes to a game mode I participate in frequently, and have pushed quite a way past 99% of this season’s participants.

Since I’m playing at a level where key failure is frequently expected in pugs, I’d appreciate if the game in general was nicer to my time, which would help many players, even at lower ratings.

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Make ones that actually line up then.

Dont pug and/or get better

At least post on your main if you’re going to troll the forums with hot takes.

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Love how people cant handle being told to get better when thats the better solution than “make things easier for me so i feel better”.

If you want better use of your time, find a consistent group to play with so youre not dealing with the uncertainty of PuGs.

If you’re going to continue to PuG, get better to cover those uncertainties.

Its really that simple. This applies to everyone

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My suggestion was to allow players to opt out of key depletion, so they have more opportunities to get better, without doing content they’ve had on farm for weeks prior.

Obviously Blizzard somewhat agrees with me, considering 2850 will prevent keys from depleting under 12.

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If youre farming 14s and failing 15s, the 10% scaling isnt the issue. Youre failing to use that “farm mode” to learn and adjust.

Perk to depletion. Puts you back to range youre more suited for. If youre in a range you cannot handle, no amount of practice is going to fix that. You need to practice in a winning scenario.

This is confirmation bias and unrelated as it only applies at a specific level above reward level. And i agree with it.

But getting carried to a 10 and turning off loot for failed runs to keep a 10 until you find a group to carry you is a bad design

1 Like