Yes, the thing I like most about m+ is that we can easily set our own goals. Whether that be a certain score, a specific dungeon at a specific score, doing all of them in general, ksh ksm ksq, a lot of goals can be set.
Like for me, just getting ksm makes me happy. Unfortunately I hate brackenhide so I likely won’t get it this season but still. So I change my goal a bit, to try and push 16 and 17 for the remaining ones.
If I make it, great, if not, Im still a hell of a lot more powerful than I was.
There’s so many bad faith arguments in this thread.
Mythic+ is fun for a lot of people, just like raiding. No one is out here advocating for people to remove raiding, so stop advocating for the removal of M+
Mythic+ does not mean “I’m never able to finish my character.” If your goal is to “complete” a character - right now, today, your fresh 70 is handed ~8 sparks and ~5 catalyst charges. You can get mountains of crests from a single raid clear, and you can armor stack a group through the megadungeon to get handed half a set of 441 from your friends. You can be 440 ilvl in ~2 weeks without even raiding mythic or running much M+.
Running 0 m+ you can “complete” a character at 440+ ilvl in about 3 weeks. Is 3 weeks really too long?
M+ does not mean “fewer dungeons.” Blizzard has already given us 17-18 dungeons in DF and we’re only on season 2. Presumably next season we will get 2-4 more.
M+ is very advantageous at the start of a season where full clearing a raid is unlikely. Conversely, raiding is very advantageous for M+'rs nearly the ENTIRE season because the strongest items from raid are super rare drops and the amount of crests vs time spent is far more efficient than running dungeons. Raiding is also a far more effecient path to tier sets at the beginning of the season. It’s unfair in both directions.
No one is forcing you to do content you do not enjoy. If you feel forced to do content you do not like, you need to be in a different guild.
M+ gives people something to do when they log in if they happen to like that content. It is not a FOMO mechanic like daily quests for currency/rep, it is not Blizzard “programming you to log in.”
If you skipped the last 7 weeks of M+ nothing bad happened. Maybe you have less vault options, but 3 options from a single raid clear is pretty good anyway.
Now that we’ve dispelled the BS, lets face the truth:
Most guilds have always had players with different desires for content difficulty
Eventually, the players with a desire for harder difficulties will leave their current guild if they cannot otherwise experience the game they want
M+ gives players who want difficult content a way to get that content without leaving their current guild for a Mythic Raiding guild.
Without M+ in it’s current state, most AOTC guilds would die, because the players who enjoy more challenging content would’ve left. And odds are good those M+'rs were also the best raiders, leaving only the more casual raiders behind to figure out if they can still make the DPS check with their 30 percentile parses.
If you split the gear system, raiding will die. The overwhelming majority of the community would choose M+ and never look back. WoW does not have the population surplus to afford continual segregation.
That’s not to say raid loggers don’t deserve improvements.
Raiding should have it’s lockout re-imagined so that players who only want to raid can raid as much as they want. Maybe that means removing the lockout all together as the season goes on, maybe that means never having a lockout and leaving RWF to tournament realms, who knows.
if we remove m+ besides hemorrhaging people the ones that are left will be on maybe 3 days a week max. thats how you kill a game. i play alts and im running out of alts to gear up. there is no pressure to run dungeons over and over your doing that yourself
you really gotta take those rose tinted glasses off. compared to now the game in the past was garbage. the amount of qol improvements we got over time makes the game so much better
i played since vanilla to and when the game got boring i just stoped my sub and went else where. every time i came back it was because of my friends.
if were going to do something as dumb as remove m+ they would have to remove the raid lockout then because this game will be as dead as the argent dawn server if theres no reason to log on outside raiding
I think the more we lean on the way things are without bothering to even try to change them the more this game will continue to drop in players and die off. Has anyone considered most people don’t want to replay the same thing over and over again with a timer? I guess you could say those that are left love it sure, but there were also 12+ million players in the game when all it was was heroics and raids in the end game.
But then again it feels like this game isn’t innovating at all and is on life support.
There’s also the shift in generational desires and attitudes as well. The Wrath community I know from the past would have HATED and rioted if you could pay for a level boost. These days tho it’s just fine to let anyone boost up to max level with little to no idea how to play. Dungeons with a timer and a zerg phiosophy would likely have been shot down as well, but that community infected even Classic Wrath sadly. It isn’t RDF that ruined the game, or LFR, it’s your now now now, go go go attitudes and impatience (you wipe once in a pug or twice everyone leaves… wtf?). Not to mention the really dumb leaderboard in an mmorpg ideas. You want to pigeonhole people even more add timers, affixes, and leaderboards oh joy.
WoW is a joke of an esports game. It shouldn’t even be considered a viable esports game at all.
The entire game is about carrots. Whether it be loot or challenges. The game play is fun but player success is measured in achieving things.
Running the same dungeon with no challenge for no rewards has no draw for players.
The problem is that for most players the end is a few weeks at most as you can also gear via world quests. (Good in my opinion). M+ breaths new life into dungeons because 1) dungeons stay challenging forever 2) alternative end game content other than raiding.
I am so down for new and more dungeons! I love them! Just make the the perfect amount of challenging for every type of player level and let them drop loot that is exciting.
i guess my biggest issue is that blizzard glaringly caters to the m+ in the way they design their dungeons. They spearhead all ideas with m+ first and esports style dungeons
you have to design dungeons with m+ in mind otherwise your creating more work for yourself in the future. look at tojs that wasnt designed for m+ since it predates it and when they made it a m+ dungeon they changed the whole thing pretty much
because if they released new heroic dungeons ala carte each tier with catch up loot like they used to do people wouldn’t spend as much time sunk into playing mains and alts through all the old content and then get into an endlessly scaling time sink with increasingly harder difficulties and decreasingly rewarding drops.
You could just spam the new dungeons a few times and have all your characters ready for the single level of raid content and then actually be able to play at that level.
Instead we get to push through world content to be able to enter mythic dungeons and get some base ilvl to be able to enter the base levels of the new raid and then encouraged to spam multiple dungeons and rated pvp to fill vault tabs for a chance at tier for which your character is balanced around which you need to be able to be competitive to enter the highest difficulties of raid and dungeon content without paying someone to carry you with in game currency purchased with real world currency exclusively from the company that designed the game.
Just to be clear, vanilla and TBC saw growth. Wrath did not. Subs flat-lined despite it being one of the best selling games of the year.
No. M+ is the innovation. Class halls/ campaigns, artifacts, heart/ essences, withered training, warfronts, islands, pvp world quests/ towers/ assaults, visions, corruption, covenants, etc are the innovation.
They tried. But many players made it clear, they don’t want innovation. They want to raid log MoP/ WoD. Read this thread. They don’t care that 10 million people quit or that by all calculations, Wod finished with a million players.
They don’t want anything that will “force” them to do more than raid log.
I don’t enjoy Mythic’s at all, but there is undoubtedly a percent of those who love doing them. And for the fact that they now sponsor Mythic Tournaments (Yawnnnnnn), might as well get used to them, their here for good!.