without m+ the game goes back to raidlog like pre-legion
4 days a month is not worth a monthly sub
Back when there was no m+ and just heroics, we did the dungeons all the time. The “keeps the dungeon relevant” talk is nonsense.
5 Likes
M+ Is the only thing that keeps me subscribed. Many others are like me as well.
I honestly believe that they need to focus more on M+. It’s the only thing truley unique about WoW in my opinion. No other game offers a rated, competitive PVE element (I know FFXIV tried to have a M+ equivalent but from what I heard it failed. And I think Lost Ark had something similar i heard? that game is dead now).
They should probably expand on Mythic plus as, I think it’s already addictive and fun, but it’s a diamond in a rough concept that Riot will probably take and run with soon just like they do with many other things.
Sorry you don’t like it – so much that you had to get your other 82 raider friends to click like on your post.
2 Likes
I guarantee you overestimate how many value it that much.
2 Likes
M+ just feels like a competition and not an adventure. They design the dungeons around them and i just dislike it. I guess maybe now im in the minority but i am sure that if this game went back to the rpg and farming moments, everyone would enjoy it more
3 Likes
WoW has tons of adventure aspects though… why are you just singeling out M+? It’s endgame content. It’s absolutely a competition.
If you’d like an adventure, go do world quests or level up another character?
world questing is not an adventure, its a chore. They are designing dungeons around m+. Mass pulling and aoe is unorganized and bad design. CC, Threat, and target priority should be what dungeons are made around. It gives the dungeon identity and feeling.
1 Like
Okay, so what do you consider an adventure then?
to me, to go on an adventure would be to level 1-70, or do quests around the world.
Raiding isn’t much of an adventure, it’s more like M+ in that your just doing it over and over again, competing in logs and trying to grind gear.
I’m not quite sure what you want from the game… genuinely interested. Adventure is such a loose term I guess, if you don’t consider WQ’s an adventure.
Go play classic vanilla and youll see what i mean. Not saying it needs to fully return to that but definitely the paradigm should be followed. Mass pulling trash just to get it over with? you cant tell me this is good design. Trash is part of the challenge of the dungeon. Raiding is definitely an adventure. Story line and characters are weak tho.
2 Likes
All do respect but I disagree with every single point you made.
People still mass pulled trash and grind instances just to get it over with in classic.
What is it about M+ that makes you think that the ‘trash’ isnt part of the challenge in M+? Mobbing up and AoE and avoiding all mechanics is definitely a challenge, especially on a high key.
Okay – so there’s an answer; Raiding is what you call an adventure. Do you mean this as in the first play through kinda thing? for lore maybe? Because guilds always grind on their raid nights. It’s probably the most grindy part of WoW. Countless hours on a single boss. And then do it again next week.
It sounds like your just a little biased and don’t like Mythic plus for… whatever reason? ‘gathering up trash’ as you say? As if raids don’t have ‘trash’ pulls? Raids and M+ dungeons have many similiarities. One is more AoE focused, and one is more boss focused. But they both have both aspects. Personally, I don’t care for raids as I don’t feel as significant. I’m one guy of many. I like holding down a key as a healer. or being the top DPS. It’s rewarding… but thats just me and what I’m in to.
Furthermore, if it’s a classic experience you want. Why are you even playing retail?
Enjoy your adventure!
I play retail cause it has the most future. Sure we can have different opinions on these things but gathering up mobs and aoe is just a mess. You can’t see anything your character is doing. Just spells and numbers. It feels like a session of diablo 4, an arpg. The fact that more people than not say that they want to get dungeons “just over with” is a problem when you are supposedly trying to create a living mmorpg world.
5 Likes
lets say your right and m+ is killing wow and they remove it. in this situation sure we may get a couple of more dungeons per xpac but do you know what the cost is? theres no more endgame for ALOT of people. it goes back to the days before m+ where once u hit level cap and geared up enough to raid you raided after that the games done for the week. pvp is a minority so everyone isnt gonna just go do that till tuesday so they can raid again. what good is having more dungeons if there just filler to gear up for raiding. how are you incapable of comprehending that without m+ it doesnt matter how many dungeons they add it could be 3 it could be 30 it would all be wasted effort since once u start raiding it becomes useless
It seems a lot of people today are in favor of playing the game less.
1 Like
Agree and also disagree. Heroics became to easy for me and the majority of us, most of us could solo heroic dungeons before Mythics came out. So we needed a step up. But no need for so many different versions of the mythics though. Just have Normal, Heroic, Mythic 15 and Mythic 20.
Yes/no.
Even though I low tier progression raided in BC/Wrath, I do remember running lots of dungeons as I still needed gear from them. I ran them as they were worth running.
In Cata I remember Heroics being a bit hard the first month or two of the expansion but still easily puggable. By the end of the first patch they were only relevant for non raiders when they updated the ilvl of gear drops.
It was pretty much like this until now. Dungeons became irrelevant for people who did higher end game content pretty quickly into the expansion. There was no carrot and it was too easy on the highest level.
When challenge mode came out, if gave people that past dungeons a reason to dungeon again.
I think it’s success evolved into our current M+ as making dungeons challenging and giving the carrot as content players want.
Wrath also had badge gear that kept the dungeons “relevant” in the sense that they were engaged because of the badges you could get th at could purchase much better quality gear. The whole Timear guy that would give daily (weekly?) quests for this stuff.
We also had the Hilt drop in the “ICC three” that kept folks farming for it. But beyond that, dungeons were mostly done for achievements / meta achievements in Wrath.
Oh and I remember running dungeons in Wrath to get tanking gear to get defense up/uncrittable (I think that was it, so long now) and so there was some relevance there beyond just the then “gear score”
2 Likes
Blizzard is killing WoW and nobody else. Their resource allocation is clearly insufficient to maintain WoW with a good level of quality and balance. It’s not because they can’t afford it, they just choose not to because we’ll still play and their bottom lines look better. Maximizing shareholder value is killing WoW, just like it is killing all of us. Just look at the pace of class balancing and months long gaps in communication, they maintain this stuff on what is effectively a skeleton crew.
2 Likes
With regard to playerbase I would say it is, in the West at least. But with regards to innovation and community I totally agree with your post. FF14 is top dog there.
1 Like
Maybe for you. Also, what is wrong with that? Why do people need something to grind every day. It is good to get breaks from the game, or have time to play an alt.
This idea that you need constant, daily progression on your main is nothing more than you being programmed by the developers. You are not playing the game, the game is playing you.