it’s not uncommon at all to full clear heroic raid and get 0 loot. Happens all the time. After hours you walk away with nothing.
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mythic plus def gives better loot. Only thing better is mythic raid loot which only the best guilds in the whole game are able to do. You know who had mythic loot before m+? The 1% or less that could clear mythic raids. You know who has mythic loot after m+ was put into the game? everyone.
30 min dungeon that you can even fail the time on and the vault gives guaranteed mythic loot… these people couldn’t step foot into mythic raid.
I’ve spent 3 hours with my guild to kill one mythic raid boss and it dropped 2 pieces of loot for the whole 20 person team. I got nothing.
the vast majority of players are only doing heroic raid and you can’t get anywhere near the same gear as m+.
m+ is easier and gives more loot.
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Who is staying in a key for 2 hours? Just leave and try another. I spent most of my day yesterday in failed pug groups with mythics. It wasn’t necessarily enjoyable but most pugs get it nowadays. If the key isn’t getting completed or the timing is so bad you aren’t getting any points, then leave. I prefer to group with guildies for this reason. The problem isn’t the mythic + system. The problem is the players, as it always is, that expect hand outs with 0 effort put in. Noone wants to get prepared for mythics by getting gear, enchants, learning strats, or learning class. They just wanna jump in and go at the costs of other people’s time.
Bro stop. This has to be the biggest tinfoil hat comment here.
I see the key drop as still relevant because it leaves a sense of urgency instead of keyholders trying to get carried (toon dragged) to completion.
While selecting someone who doesn’t know mechanics happens or is just bad at an alt class, it forces you to be better selective on who you allow into the group. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
If all you did was run a mythic and keep wiping without any sort of consequence, why would you try to improve on who is in your group or how you play? I think it would have the opposite effect. I would see more players that aren’t very good being psyched because now it doesn’t matter as much.
I’ll do mythic + here and there but I mostly just raid. It’s way less toxic being in a guild full of friends than pugging with all the meanies. I was in a key last night less than 10 seconds before someone was called an idiot. Hell, we hadn’t even started the dungeon yet and then the guy went off about how he “sweats”. So stupid.
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For some, m+ is a competitive mode. No different than PvP, (only without the benefit of a reliable path to equal gear levels).
When you’re competing for the 0.1% title, having to play a completely separate game mode just to not be disadvantaged vs those you’re competing against sucks.
On the flip side, trying to nab title in mythic raid sucks because you are required to participate in that hero gear farm in m+ in the early weeks to stand a chance.
This is where the loot discrepancies come in. Raiders don’t want to feel “forced” to do M+ and M+ folks don’t want to feel “forced” to raid.
This is exactly what should happen in every dungeon and raid in every expansion. Being able to just tag or walk on by pack after pack pulling 32 mobs hundreds of yards through 3 connected rooms without any consequence is the stupidest gameplay in any game ever.
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No it shouldn’t.
M+ was designed as a way of getting raid quality gear for people who didn’t like raids (large group content) or couldn’t meet raid schedules. It can get upto Mythic raid loot levels but mythic raid loot is still generally better than anything M+ l. The gear especially trinkets etc are generally better than anything from delves.
Delves were designed as a soloable type of content where people can get up to heroic raid level loot. It’s designed for people who don’t wanna group up etc. and it’s hindered by only being up to heroic raid level loot - that’s the trade off. Now you can do delves in groups and it’s quicker but again the trade off, not to mention key / vault gate keeping.
And people can get PvP gear early on to supplement PvE gear.
The people benefitting the most are those doing all types of content.
People only doing one type of complaining about the downfalls of their type and benefits of the others.
You all have access to all types of content - it’s a CHOICE not to do it.
At present I only do delves. Mostly due to my work schedule - if I had more time I’d do more content.
Yes it is.
This is exactly what should happen in every dungeon and raid in every expansion. Being able to just tag or walk on by pack after pack pulling 32 mobs hundreds of yards through 3 connected rooms without any consequence is the stupidest gameplay in any game ever.
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No worries! They slightly buffed gatekeeper count so surely people will start single pulling the worst mob in the history of M+ dungeons instead of pulling literally everything else
M+ needs a complete overhaul. It’s the worst game mode filled with the most toxic abusive community of players. Harassment, arguing, finger pointing and on and on. Viewship of the MDI seems so low. Like 80 something people watching is pathetic. It’s awful gameplay and it needs to be reworked to be more welcoming, with no more “go go go” gameplay. That playstyle is awful and is now ruining other parts of the game. MMORPG’s are not a sprint, should not be designed that way and will see (as they are currently) turning off players from that gamemode.
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Noone wants to watch MDI because unless you no-life wow you have no idea what is going on in the dungeons 90% of the time it’s onscreen. It was a mistake to try and make M+ competitive. Going for the highest key scores should have stayed community-driven (much like RWF) instead of Blizzard introducing M+ score and titles.
The experience of M+ was at it’s best when Blizzard thought of it as an arcade minimode and didn’t try to police the way people pulled things.
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Hard disagree, if anything M+ is better defined than ever!
It’s just…not for you. And that’s fine! As you said, you can go raid!
I think what hes getting at is that they are very linear now and have very little room for trash pull customization.
For people that scale keys beyond the ilvl of the loot that drop. I can see how not having that level of customization can affect the run, youre limited to your dps at that point, with no ability to skip mobs to speed up the run
There’s just less self expression. There are no Echo pulls anymore, other than in MDI which is not reflective of pushing keys. And I assume MDI has to play very baby keys in order to combine pulls if you’re at or close to full kick saturation.
Typical Hazzikostas L.
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I think until Ion is replaced it will continue in that direction.
Can we just go back to Outlaw rogue “degenerate gameplay” style (as quoted by Ion) from BFA? That was actually really fun! 
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The worst part is they’ve also started designing the bosses like they do with raid bosses. M+ fights should be intuitive and not needlessly complex (like most of the war within dungeon fights).
It really comes down to them designing for the competitive aspect > fun. I played M+ because it was fun, and I enjoyed it.
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