Are we just completely ignoring bfa seasons 2-4 and S1 dragonflight from 10.0.5 onwards?
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its been stated by several people that the main thing is, they provide strong damage in addition to providing much higher group survivability.
players being able to live through pulls they normally couldn’t allows keys to get pushed higher. and things die faster when the rest of the group isn’t trying to live a pull and can just focus on doing damage.
strong group utility doesnt show up on meters in the same way as dps or heals. this factor is thus not being equated to the value they bring. in the 2 fire mage example, they wouldn’t necessarily be able to both do that full damage because they’d need to live the pull and not get forced into a ice block to do it.
High level M+ was never balanced and will never be balanced. This is nothing new.
And M+ is dead content that nobody cares.
So true! Every time anyone that’s not a mythic+ “bro” complains about getting into groups, the create your own group message gets shoved into their faces like a door dash delivery on a Friday night.
So those of you that aren’t current meta spec…
CREATE YOUR OWN GROUP AND STOP WHINING.
Haha. That felt good.
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Think the other problem with this spec is it’s going to be another balance variable.
Do aug buffs scale equally with every spec and ability that benefits from them? Will they end up like an over tuned set bonus for some specs and an under tuned set bonus for others?
I suspect they’ve released an infinite improbability drive into the game and we’re going to have a years of chasing unexpected OP combinations.
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I don’t think a strict meta is that bad in really high keys.
We’re talking about exponential content with no hard cap, only a soft upper limit. Obviously there can only be a handful of combinations at best that are so optimal they can push past that soft cap higher than others.
I tend to agree but I still think the existence of best should not be so much better that it invalidates nearly anything else.
Go look at the EU leaderboards for last season and scroll through a few pages. Besides the ubiquitous prot paladin you’ll see so much variety in the other slots. We can have it this good again, hell we get better tank balance and we can have it better.
That is completely fair. I definitely think Aug needs to reined in.
Here as well, and i play all tanks, lock and disc priest. And all i do is pug. 2800io just pugging. And i dont see what OP is seeing.
Not me clearing 19/20s with a 415ilvl tank 
I don’t know why anyone is mad about this. Dungeons aren’t tuned for people pushing 22d and higher, classes aren’t tuned based on meta classes. Can every class clear 20s and get portals? Yes. Anything higher than that is a bonus and test of skill. Be happy with what you can do. No one cares about your io, no one will remember next season.
This season is a complete wash. It’s funny because they make such a big deal about M+ prestige and then drop a grenade in the middle of the season with Augvokers and Mages/Spriests being broken.
M+ is the most popular content per Blizzard’s own Poll. Mythic Raid, in just the last 2 weeks, has 472,220 logged parses per WCL with many estimates of active population at only around 2M, that’s a quarter of the playerbase.
Based on that, I’d say your assertion that the player base would be “better off without M+ and Mythic Raid” is dead wrong and while there might be a few that share that opinion, it’s a small minority that shouldn’t be catered to by the devs for “the health of the game.”
What, are you going to boot the casual gamers too? The toxicity is hardly the people in m+, it’s more the people on the lower rungs of progression who have a chip in their shoulders that people dare do harder content than them. The issue is nobody calls them out on it because when you try to they’ll just gaslight everyone around you into thinking you condone bullying despite the fact the first thrown punch is almost always from the casual aisle, the other side just hits way harder in response.
And I will maintain that stance until the day this game dies. There are a fair few toxic people in m+, I won’t disagree, but they’ve been very little compared to the clown circus that is the self-proclaimed casual crowd of General Discussion. It isn’t even just enough for them to not do the content, no, they have to make sure damn near everyone knows they are not doing the content, and why, and they can never give anything of a reason that isn’t quite literally blaming everybody else. “Why don’t you do the dungeon? It’s easy.” “Uh, well I would but you know this game is just full of the most elite people and they demand that I have a 450 ilvl as well as hard mode achievement and title and there was something about a deal at a crossroad with a demon and offering up my soul and honestly this game is dumb and gear is dumb and shouldn’t exist. Blizzard needs to quit making content for people that aren’t me, focus on me, everyone else can cry in the corner… but yeah I’ll do it when they make a non mythic queued version for it and make a belated forum post praising the content months after it came out when I finally see it.”
Nah straight up, GD Casuals are hands down the most toxic people in this damn game but because they mistakenly think they’re underdogs kicked around from above instead of little runts who bark and try to punch upward so they never really understand that most of their problems are self inflicted and thus never really seek to change their behavior as they don’t understand they’re in the wrong.
Craziest thing, if you want the elite players to just ignore you, they tend to do that when you don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong or take a crap all over the content they like doing just because you’re mad it’s not content you like doing. They only ever seem to chime in when it’s people who are progression capped at LFR demanding things like “Less raids because they don’t like them and some random poll that only allowed you one choice said a thing” then take swings at Mythic raiders as if they’re the scourge of the game when frankly, they’ve been some of the nicest. I literally asked a balance druid in a Mythic raiding guild for advice. Dude gave me logs, guides, macros, and tips all over discord just because I asked for pointers and he had the time.
Yeah I’d gladly play the game with people like that, not so much the people who are capped at single digit m+ keys saying that m+ is overtuned and Blizzard needs to quit catering to m+ players and giving them content despite it being some of the most enjoyed content within the game at large… that’s the other thing about GD. They sincerely seem to not understand this is quite literally less than a percent of the playerbase. The talk about “We’re the vocal majority” or “the majority has spoken”… the majority of what? 0.213% of the playerbase thinks a way? God damn! Might as well upend absolutely everything guys!
Well i certainly do. Maybe you dont becuase your running your preist which is often an insta invite for a 20.
Some simple facts. Before augmentation i was about 20 minutes to get into a 20-21. This week i spent 7 hours in que for the same 20-21 range and in that time i spent a total of 20 minutes in an actual dungeon. Im not even close to the top of the possible difficulty levels at 20-21. I tried yesterday to get into much easier keys in the 16-19 range so i could get a vault and guess what not one single invite to key levels ive three chested many times. This is a problem. Yes the very top few key levels will always lean to a few classes but this week i cant get into something almost half the top end which is what a 16 now is.
Update 7/24
The upcoming nurfs to aug and shadow I doubt will be enough.
I spent the last 4 hours sitting in queue with a 3.3k io (literally every 25 timed on fort and tyran) obviously looking to do 26s. 4 Hours later I have recieved 0 invites as they will only invite shadow preist, aug, and fire mage.
This is no longer considered top end key as 27/28s are being regularly posted in Queue. And 29s being timed. For reference, I am a regular in higher M+ and most of my friend’s list is filled with 3.4-3.6k players who although like me, will not invite me because the balance is that toxically out of whack. I unfortunately unlike most of my friends don’t like to subscribe to the FOTM reroll every 2-3 months.
We literally went from M+ probably being more balanced and accessible to all classes and specs than it has ever been pre 10.1.5 to the worst and most inaccessible it has been in a long time.
For reference for the casuals that will comment without any understanding of M+, ret is actually pretty good right now. We can do top end M+ damage and are the tankiest dps spec in the game making us a good M+ spec.
As it looks currently, M+ title is also probably ruined. all 1000 spots will probably be taken up be 6-7 specs, those being shadow preist, fire mage, auggie, and a few tank/healer.
@blizzard do you have any plans to save this season you ruined? I’m still a big advocate for M+ title being by spec so you are competing against your peers instead of whether or not your spec is good or not. Perhaps the top 10-20 of a spec in a region.
good. i despite m+ and everything it stands for
despise?
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i wish for dks, mages, warlocks, hunters to be more middle pack for once and others be up top… really tired of seeing them always at the top or complaining… so let warrior, ret, shadow, rogue, dh be to the top for a good bit
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Blizzard continues to buff the dungeons mid season. First freehold removing the cannons and now neltharus reducing chains impact dramatically. With both changes they have given no compensation elsewhere in the dungeon. This means if you didn’t push earlier in the season with broken meta specs and broken dungeon routes you cannot get title. Will Blizzard do anything about the unfairness they are creating?