M+ gear gap widening vs Mythic raiding

Inc Raider :sob: about being even more forced to M+.

8 20keys a week

I got you on ignore, but I needed to call you out on something here. You along with the other M+ trolls that frequent these forums just keep promoting this weird tribalism between players.

The reality is a lot of players probably dabble in both raiding and M+. This idea that there are these sides like M+ and raiders are some kind of political parties is just getting old.

It almost feels like you’re dragging your own insecurities into these discussions or you’re just one of those weird people that just get off on causing division among people on these forums. It is probably a little of both.

I will risk the ban here to call out this nonsense. You and the OP are notorious for this kind of behavior, and I wish the mods would start banning you guys, because most of your comments are nothing but trolling.


The goal should be parallel content with relatively comparable difficulty to rewards.

The “forced” nerds will never be happy.


Still vastly easier than the mythic raid most likely, and still puggable which mythic raids are not.

Here’s a update on mythic plus

Doubtful, and what M Raid boss are you talking about first or last boss? I seen 4-5 M raid boss’s much easier that heroic.

You hit this on the head. HAMMER!

EDIT: I had a loooooooong post to go with this but it was mostly iterating what you said over n over.

Raiding and M+ have different sets of unique challenges and people can enjoy them both.

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M+ 20-s are easier than Mythic raiding for one reason and one reason only. Less people to screw things up. On a singular individual level, Mythic raids are easy. When you had 19 others you have to depend on… Then it gets dicey. Thats the only reason why.

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Thank you!! I hate the tribalism over this, it really only exists in the heads of a small minority of people in my opinion.

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Also the fact that the dungeons stopped adding mechanics at +10…

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That and coordination that’s inhumanly possible and requires custom weak auras.

And yeah, needing 20 people to not mess up is harder than needing 5, that still makes it harder…

But at the same token… I will use Angel place Dungeon in bastion that I cannot for the life of me remember.

The trash there. Its trash. Ezy pzy. But the higher and higher you go… +20s. If you do not interrupt that same trash you are going to wipe every time. Suddenly small groups of trash have 1-3 different kinds of curses/abilities going off and if you do not coordinate to interrupt them. You wipe. The bog swoley birds are a good example. There are more and

I’m sure you know. I think it’s Dark lash or something. Been a minute since i was there.

Yes, I know, I’ve done +20 Spires of Ascension.

Here’s the thing though:


  • Stuff you used to ignore becomes dangerous.
  • Adds nothing new past +10 keys.

Mythic raiding:

  • Stuff you used to ignore becomes dangerous.
  • Also adds multiple additional mechanics with every difficulty.

Imagine if Mythic raiding was the same mechanics as Normal, just with damage that you couldn’t ignore anymore. The whole idea is ridiculous, yet that’s how M+ works. They should continue adding additional affixes every 3 levels past +10.


All of what you said I can get on board with but, lets not kid ourselves. 20+s are no walks in the park. They are comparable to at the very least and I comfortably argue this… The first 5 Mythic bosses. Thats not a joke. Ignoring the key sellers and boss sellers there are very minute amounts of people in comparison overall achieving these feats. I think it’s an injustice to call the comparison between the two so wide.

Yes it is. In season 3, the only bosses in Sepulcher that were on par or easier than +20 keys were Guardian and maybe Skolex. Everything from Dausegne/Xymox on up was way harder than +20 keys.

A lot of people I hang out with would just do +15s for vault. Then with the addition of the teleports, a lot of folks started saying “gosh, people say those +20 keys are rough, but getting those teleports would be cool” and so a lot of friends of mine started trying them.

And you know what the universal reaction was?

“THIS is what people have been saying is so difficult? These are easy…”

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Why are we limiting ourselves to sepulcher, that seems completely unfair.

The first 5 of Nathria and the first 5 of Sanctum were incredibly easy.

I play both forms of content. Something you would have noticed if you bothered to try. Of course you have me on ignore, your little trolling here doesn’t work in the face of experience and facts from informed players, so you got to try to steer clear from them as much as you can.

Yeah, I think this Raiimir-Stormrage guy is one of those. Sure looks like it.

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Oh it changes around, for sure. Prideful was a real PITA affix (as was Infested in S1 Legion).

Nerzhul was also a PITA, so…

It was just ping pong. How does that invalidate the other 9?