Earlier this week I attempted my first +7 and it got bricked because we wiped on the third boss, which the tank rage quit over. These kinds of interactions are always frustrating because you have a run that is going fine, but one mistake towards the end triggers someone so GG. A thought I had was Blizzard should allow players to opt out of timing the dungeon to help better alleviate these kinds of interactions and set people’s expectations.
Of course…I’ve now realized the tool for M+ has been updated since I last interacted with it in SL (or I just don’t remember) as you can state the purpose of the key; standard, completion or beat timer. Honestly not sure what the difference between standard and the others, but it’s good to see there was some thought put into this.
Problem is…you can’t search for “completion” or “timer” in the search bar, nor does the filter options let you pick the type of key to search for. Moreover, even if you could, last I looked all but one group is set to standard because no one is paying attention to this setting. Admittedly, I can say I haven’t been looking at key type either, but even if I was it wouldn’t matter as it currently stands.
So the suggestion is threefold.
Allow us to search for keys that are for completion or beating the timer; again honestly not sure why standard exists because M+ is pass or fail. If there’s a point to standard I’m missing it.
Likely need to change the interface to prompt the group creator what the run’s goal is. This is to help avoid people glazing over this portion of the group creation tool. It should either be blank to force a selection or be a pop-up window after you list as either of these design options requires user input.
I’m less concerned with this one if the first two are adjusted, but I’d still advocate that keystones could have an option to opt out of displaying the timer for the group; this would be done when popping the key into the dungeon to start you’d tell it the goal is not to time the dungeon. I think the key should still track progress, award score, etc just not be displayed as the goal is about getting the run done rather than worrying about deaths or time remaining.
You’re not going to see many, if any at all, completion runs even being listed right now. Those are more for the first few weeks of the season at +10 level just to get Mythic slots in the vault.
This is a truly awful idea that could easily be abused.
Even if Blizz added them into the interface, those features are red flags. Worse, they’re blackholes for not-so-great players.
I’ve carried far too many of those groups in my time. Please do be upfront with what you want, but also understand you’re actively looking for subpar players.
Possibly, but the feature is currently half-baked which is my point. We have the ability to set the group’s intentions, but no way to actually search for them so it doesn’t serve much of a point.
Well for one, if they put “Completion” in the title, you can already search it. I don’t think anyone changes the key type even if they are only looking for completion.
Keyholder doesn’t tell the group ahead of time that they’re only going for completion, disables timer hoping for a carry. It’s just something that isn’t needed.
If they do, but if they don’t then you can’t search for it. Again, this is about recognizing the concept is half-baked; you can put settings in for your key in the group formation tool, but you can’t actively search for it. Hell, some aren’t even set to keystone either but are stated as a M+ in the title.
That’s the point for suggestion #2. Like I said I don’t even know what the difference between a standard run is versus a beat timer/completion run. If it’s not implicitly stated I’d assume the standard goal is to beat the timer as it is. Completion is just a fancy way to say “I want my Vault reward”
I’m not saying the turning off of the timer changes anything; it’s just not displayed in the interface while the run is in progress. It’s more QoL/ease of mind for people who get uppity about seeing the timer. You could also make the entire group agree to start the run with the key settings displayed before the countdown to start the dungeon begins, which may just be another good feature to have instead of having people ready check before starting, starting their own timer, and then starting it.
If you can explain why the suggestion has problems go for it, if you can’t then it just shows the suggestion is valid. I’ve outlined that the current interface is half-baked. Suggestion #3 is a cherry on top that I figured would throw people into a tizzy over even though the goal isn’t to really change M+ on a fundamental level and I stated it’s less necessary than a QoL ask since if the intention is to use completion as a legitimate group forming tool then it makes sense you should be able to run the dungeon in a mode that respects the group’s goals.
Also…effort? For who? Blizzard? Oh darn, that’s a shame. Making them work on the game they make. I am such a mean person.
Then they should just remove the M+ setting for what the group’s intention is because it serves no purpose.
As I said above the game currently allows you to choose the group’s intention with the run. If the game is going to let you pick this setting it makes sense that the run could be formed in a way that conforms to those settings.
“I’m here for completion so don’t bother timing us” is basically the stance.
Agreed, but what’s your point beyond that? Because you’ve really failed to articulate the issues with the suggestions themselves and instead want to discuss how you can get around those issues and the point of my suggestions is patching how players currently have to navigate around them.
i literally just did you just dont like the answer. so let me make it even more simple for you. the work isnt worth the reward. its a niche problem that really isnt that big off an issue. if it is such a big deal that you need the timer to not be on screen im sure there is a weak aura that will do that for you. issues like these is what weak auras was made to solve lol.
A problem is me saying “M0 should drop myth track loot” and you explaining why that’s a bad idea for the health of the game. You saying “I don’t think it’s necessary” doesn’t identify a problem with the suggestion, you just don’t think it’s worth doing. You’re entitled to your opinion, but it does not identify a problem.
You could at least argue it’ll cost us a raid tier.
People are so funny sometimes. The point of the suggestion is to create an objective window that correlates to the group’s intention. It’s a very small tweak/ask, but again, I knew it’d cause people to resort to logic like yours. You basically don’t have a reason to say not to do it, so you say the only thing you can say which is it’s not worth the effort even though you nor I have any idea how much effort it takes.
Anyways, as I said in my original post #3 is a cherry on top suggestion. If they did the first two things I’d say it’s good enough. Or I suppose option #4 is to kibosh the keystone group settings because it’s not used and serves no purpose.
The reason I’d like more clarity and ability to search is because as someone being kind of casual for now I’d prefer to be able to search for a completion run to upgrade my vault after I knock out my dungeons for the week and am willing to waste my time not timing a dungeon if it means locking in a vault upgrade. I believe that if the settings were more obvious and easily searched people would do a better job of listing keys for both purposes.
It’d be nice but the experience you shared only happened to me one time so far out of about 75 completed runs. The others when we fail on the first pull people leaving is totally fine and justifiable. I wouldn’t sweat it despite it being a good suggestion for filtering. There might be an addon that does this as well
Alternatively for now if you’re worried about it I would suggest forming your own group and setting the tone (:
sure the resources they used doing your useless idea could have been spentelsewhere.
the problem is at its core completion setting is flawed. i get it at its core its a warning that you dont care about timing it but then the problem is you will get sub par people in that will basically guarantee it wont time. its like a self fulfilling prophecy lol.
My M+ experience has honestly been really smooth so far in TWW, and I kind of knew that a 7 on tyrannical week was going to be a noticeable step up from my casual 5-6 runs. Thankfully I joined a +7 and that was a partial guild group and the dude was like “Lol I forgot to downgrade it so we’re doing a 9” which we just completed over time. Works for me.
My current plan is to care more about 7+ on fortified weeks because it’s easier to slog through a dungeon with beefy trash than it is if you get to a boss that the group needs 2-4 attempts on.
I don’t think either one of us have any idea how much time it’d take, and since this isn’t content development I doubt there is any shared workload between teams. Updating the interface wouldn’t cost us a raid tier, it’d cost us another interface tweak/update/addition.
The point of my first two suggestions goes back to the fact that you can set a group up for settings, but you can’t search for them. The uncontroversial take should be that’s bad interface design and that it’s half baked as a concept. You and Gneusch might be right that completion groups are trap groups filled with worse players, but at the end of the day if the option is going to be supported then it should be supported properly or it should be axed.
Personally, I don’t create a strong correlation to them being awful. I just associate it with people who want vault rewards and know timing may not happen and they want to minimize the chance of people dipping. IME, especially with only fortified, you can always slog through an M+ even if the players are subpar.
going to have to agree to disagree on this one. if you go into something with failure as your main thought then you are more likely to fail. i go into every key with the intention to time it and with how insanely easy vault keys are at this point there is no reason to not have that thought process. honestly they should get rid of completion. its one of those ideas on paper makes sense but in reality its flawed. also if you are really worried about peoples motivations in keys then join the wme discord.
If you don’t like the timer aspect of m+, simply don’t play it. It’s a core part of the mode and is 100% needed regardless how many people try to fight it.
Sorry but with no timer, it will have to turn into something like a death counter as a failure metric, at which point m+ will just turn into afk simulator waiting for CDs and lust to come back up for every difficult pull. Or the meta style of play will become a 1 pack at a time snoozefest to avoid any potential of wiping.
As much as you hate the timer, the degeneracy that will take place without it will put m+ in a far worse state
I think it’s just about everyone understanding expectations, and I am malleable with flexing my standards based on what I join. I don’t claim to be the best, but I used to clear like 70-80% of mythic raids through BFA including a few CEs, but I don’t take those expectations into lower end content. I’m really not back entirely up to snuff myself anyways.
But if I go into LFR I don’t expect to play with good players and if I go into a key “for completion” then I expect to go in and experience some mistakes. If I’m joining a completion key I’m doing it under the pretense that there may be some bumps along the way and that I have the time to accommodate as well.
I’ve heard people throw this discord around so I might have to look into it.
Imagine typing all this up without reading the OP.
It’s the same generic anti-timer BS time and time again with people on here. “Completion” keys shouldn’t even award you myth track from the vault, you should have to time it in the first place. If you don’t time it, you have failed the key, failure should not reward you the same as success.
If I see someone listing a “completion” key, I’m avoiding that group like the plague considering it’s literally an advertisement showing their lack of confidence in their abilities