You can’t claim it is just an exception when something breaks your entire theory, like what?
Skill > Gear. As we have proven to you with people pushing KSM with 190ilvl. I got KSM at 212, far from 190 but much sooner and lower than 220.
You claiming the 1% are the exception makes it sound like it was a glitch.
Especially when you consider the number of classes that are just plain easy to play.
Not necessarily true. A rather outliner yet still applicable example is farming old content. You don’t need skill to clear the content, just gear. Yes, I kno it’s a bit of a reach, but its still true.
You don’t need any gear to clear old content. Once legecy loot kicks in all you need are levels.
I’m referring to current content and the relevance of gear over skill. Folks are pushing +27s in 226 ilvl. Lots of people have 226 ilvl - how many are pushing keys that high?
Yeah…but I don’t think that’s true. Most people will never time a 10. Giving them 220 gear doesn’t suddenly make that possible. Maybe it buys you an extra mistake, but making mistakes is what breaks keys and wipes raids.
That is because, to an extent, it is. Those players do things that 99% of the playerbase can’t do, so providing them as an example is like surveying the top 1% of the wealthiest people in the world and asking them what a 200 dollar paycheck from a 40hr work week means to them.
I meant at the end of an expansion and you farm beginning tier gear. Skill doesn’t matter with enough gear.
To an extent, correct. But giving them 226 gear and a basic knowledge of the dungeon and their spec, they will time it. You give them 185 gear, they wont time it.
We have given you examples after example of how skill outweighs gear. Yet, you are clinging to thinking you are the all-knowing person who isn’t even pushing keys.
Get a bunch of random players to sign up for the Mythic Push tournament. They can put an every min-max gear, full 226 and see how well they can do. I can guarantee they wont get far. This is proof that gear does not eliminate the need for skill.
There’s very little content in the game that can just be straight outgeared and certainly not keys as they scale forever. Plenty of people outgear mythic raid and will never see CE. There’s a reason for that.
I don’t consider previous tiers “current content” as far as gearing is concerned. You’re specifically talking about out-gearing content to demonstrate skill doesn’t matter as much as gear.
The difference from 213 to 226 is like 1500 dps and probably not even that much. Give that player in 213 the basic knowledge and that player will start timing those keys as well. You’re putting too much emphasis on the gear part of it.
Since I need to go to bed, I must forgo anymore discussion, but I do want to say this.
I want to be clear that I never said skill and gameplay doesn’t matter, it does. However, the degree, ie proportion, that gear matters is greater than that of skill/gameplay to the majority of the playerbase. Why? Because different people have different skill ceilings. Some people, like the 1% (so your happy), have very high skill ceilings. The rest of the 99% are to different degrees much less than theirs. What this means is that each player relies on gear more or less depending on their skill level. However, what is the constant across the board is the need for gear. Ppl with low skill ceilings rely more on gear and vise versa. The average in the playerbase relies more on gear then skill. Most people pay attention to the top 10-20% even of players, but the curve is very steep by then. The the opposit side, the curve steeps heavily towards gear. This is the natural curve of wow. However, one cannot claim that skill outweighs gear when the majority of the playerbase relies on gear to clear content.
It’s been fun discussing this, I enjoyed hearing your perspectives, good night.
You and I both know giving players 226 won’t make them time KSM if they can’t already. You need skill to do that, gear or not.
Like I said. Get a bunch of random players to sign up for the Mythic Push Tournament. You get access to the Tournament server where you get to pick out every piece of gear you want, free consumables, legit min-maxing and have them run M+. I guarantee you that they will not do well with gear if they do not already have the skill. Gear is not what holds people back. Especially after covenant gear giving you 197 to start. That is legit what M+7-9 give you.
Gear makes things easier, that’s true, but only when you know what you’re doing. Out of curiosity, I simmed myself in 214 gear (which was as low as I could go) and I’m 1k off my regular set. That’s just not enough dps to stop people from timing a 15. They’re failing because the mechanics aren’t being followed. Throwing them another 10 ilvls won’t fix that.
Appreciate your respectful discourse. I hope mine, in turn, was interpreted as such too!
Lmao you do not need skill to get KSM, you just need things to die quickly, while you don’t die. I’m thinking of this in terms of - completely awful / player can’t actually see the screen / runs off edges frequently vs can see the screen / doesn’t stand in blatantly obvious bad things / some semblance of what their abilities do vs knows their spec inside and out / can compensate for other players / do off heals / dispels etc / know ideal routing.
Sure, may be harder on some classes but if you mash enough buttons the things will die quicker if you’re fully geared.
Not dying requires skill.
Then why are people buying KSM with RMT?
I mean your 224 barely doing anything above a 15.
I have seen plenty of fully geared 220+ meta spec players pull 3.5 dps overall.
Honestly,no one can truly balance any spec or class you can get close but mathematically it is impossible.