M+ DPS balance by spec

Community General Discussion
1

Here are the top DPS by spec for a +15 HoA as reported by warcraft logs.

Example `https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/25/#metric=dps&bracket=15&boss=12287&class=Rogue&spec=Outlaw

You can play around with different dungeons and key levels and you’ll get different results ( in fact I would encourage people to build similar lists ) but for the best runs at 15 HoA this is what we got.

At the very least for this dungeon at this level we’re well beyond skill being the primary deciding factor for performance.

DPS by spec for HoA 15
Outlaw 11,638
Shadow 11,461
Balance 10,867
Marksman 10,881
Fury 10,686
Fire 10,488
Demon 9,102
Destruction 9,100
Elemental 9,074
Windwalker 8,910
Ret 8,453
Frost 8,512 ( 12,555 outlier at top )
Unholy 8,404
Beast Master 7,997
Havoc 7,806
Survival 7,738
Arcane 7,742 ( 13,771 outlier at top )
Assassination 7,427
Affliction 7,306
Arms 6,783
Vengeance 6,867 A TANK
Feral 6,767
Subtlety 6,436
Enhancement 6,363

2

Well beyond skill? What? It’s a 15. 15s aren’t even remotely difficult.

Halls of Atonement is one of the easiest keys this expansion and a team of five gorillas could do a +15 of it.

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3

Do these account for being fed PI? And waiting on CD to purposefully trying to top the leaderboard?

I’d imagine more of these top runs are way overkill huge pulls being consistently melted down unlike what you’d find in a regular 15?

I’m assuming these are overall?

Don’t get me wrong, it’s mad impressive

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4

Uhmm,

OK

Since we can assume no mistakes were made since these are the best runs from such an easy dungeon then we can assume this represents the raw potential by spec.

Is it balanced?

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5

Its a bit concerning that the top specs are nearly double the bottom specs.

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6

That and the best tank has outperformed 3 entire DPS specs.

It just what warcraft logs is reporting for best DPS. I’m sure there was some PI going on and I did throw out two mage outliers that were way off from the second best run.

But these are the best recorded runs for every DPS spec.

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7

It’s interesting data but for the majority of the player base I don’t think it holds much weight

These guys, I’m assuming are all the top of the top.

I’d be curious to see on a scale of dps done where the majority of players sit, maybe at 2/3s the top dps? Pure guess work btw

Also all groups as we know aren’t created equal, if it’s a squad of players who do 20s abs above regularly, they’re going to slaughter a 15 and pull huge numbers

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8

Fairly sure most groups don’t log M+.

Raid logs are valid, M+ logs aren’t particularly.

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9

Good question.

Looking at a few specs for the 100th and 500th the discrepancies aren’t nearly as extreme but the trends are still there.

Outlaw 100th 6418 500th 5873
Balance 100th 6826 500th 6283
Enhancement 100th 5276, 500th 4635
Feral 100th 4943 500th 4096

There’s probably some self reporting bias, but that’s true with the raid logs as well.

Data set probably isn’t as large as raids but in terms of the people that care to report, this is the data we got.

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10

where can I get the demon spec?

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11

Demonology warlock

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12

Well that’s the problem too, as mentioned, low data points. Now I’m not saying that these numbers aren’t a good guideline, but it’s definitely incomplete.

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13

Warlock, Demonology.

That’s definitely a problem. Feral has less than 1000 recorded runs for HoA 15. So maybe not as useful for looking at performance at the median.

At best I think it’s just indicates raw upper limit potential of a spec. Big differences at the top are still balance problem though.

More complete data set would be RIO and from the other thread here are the top IO scores by spec for a limited list of specs

3614 Fire Mage
3614 Outlaw rogue
3614 Boomkin
3320 WW monk
3275 Havoc
3059 MM Hunter
2791 Blood DK
2532 Sublety Rogue
2375 BM Hunter
2356 Survival Hunter
2352 Feral

Which seems to roughly correlate to DPS output. Which in turn would indicate it’s really not utility balance that’s causing gating and social issues for specs. Some just mechanically fall off and are opportunity costs to groups.

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14

I wouldn’t worry about all that too much. 5 people with the appropriate io will time a 15, regardless of class/spec. Have your lust and the right mix of ranged and melee and you’ll do just fine.

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15

Yet you have only timed a 16 and a 10?

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16

I’m not sure what this is supposed to convey. We’ve seen fire mages doing plenty more, and group damage is always going to scale against the pull size and AoE, as well as the route chosen.

Like, I would rather take an Enhancement shaman over a Frost mage any day. I would rather take an Arcane Mage over a Frost Mage.

17

I’m sure frost is just fine in keys that low. The sustained might even be more useful seeing as trash packs would be dying so quickly.

18

There’s data and then there interpretation. Just the bottom dps did significantly lower, but you have to remember that all the best players are playing the better specs. So you are comparing the 1% of players who play the specs at the top to the random run of the mill players clinging on to a dead spec at the bottom. It is data and numbers and just data and numbers.

The gap between specs probably isn’t as severe as they actually appear.

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19

And you have to remember there are good players that are spec agnostic, and good players that are die hard to their spec.

IMHO this is a fair representation of a specs maximum potential. At a very basic level, if you’re in lower key do you want someone getting 50% of 10k or 50% of 5k?

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20

There are “good” players everywhere, sure. But the top 1% of players pushing world firsts in +27s and competing in MDI are a different league. Those top players are the numbers you see on the leaderboards and comparing them to “good” players is not a good representation.

If the top players did a run with the less desirable spec, the numbers would be higher. Much higher. Not as high as the better specs, but higher than what is current shown.

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