I really hate how much people want the game to be compermentalized.
Even the PvP gear being severely nerfed in PvE annoys me. If i’m good enough to play at a high rating i should have the same gear as a Mythic Raider or high M+ enjoyer.
Being good at any part of the game should be rewarding.
I don’t see any reason why pvp item level should even exist, either. All 3 pillars should share loot, imho.
All I can say, is thank goodness that the s3/s4 swords were close to cata’s edge. Took them both into sunwell. I have still never seen ce drop.
4 pillars. Bring back 5 mask visions.
Except that’s not how it works. Most progression raiders, during most of progression raiding, get most of their gear from M+.
M+ players are fully capable of gearing and clearing entirely through M+ (in fact, M+ is the ONLY way to do things like cap on crests).
If Catalyst didn’t exist, then you might have a point. But it does exist.
Totally and one hundred percent agree with OP.
It’s more of a problem of M+ can be done repeatedly and a difference of parity in play time. Someone who only does about an hour or two of M+ will not be at an advantage. It’s the people who can do M+ in a 60 hour binge session that are the real monsters. And tbh I don’t want to stomp on them. It’s like the last avenue available for that style of play outside of pvp…(sort of, pvp is gated now, though you can still binge it quite a bit).
There really aught be somewhere in the middle to meet.
Now, eventually dedicated raiders can get enough gear to get their AoTC without M+. The problem is with the community being so darn toxic that it is very hard and a lot of guilds require ppl to at least do a few M+ per week.
Not to mention some specs are just a walking pinata in PvP. Perfectly balanced.
Up to 441. Then raid is more lucrative.
M+ isn’t the problem. Raiding is the problem.
Raiding is antiquated in design and only sticks around due to the grandfather clause and the small but dedicated portion of players who actually do it being extremely loud. It needs a revamp like what dungeons got in Legion.
That’s odd there’s ~80 pieces of tier in my raid group and zero of them came from the catalyst.
Except it’s not, M+ guarantees 447 once per week, raid guarantees nothing. Vault’s gonna give mostly 441 and for boss drops you’re taking one of the pittance drops from somebody else on your team - assuming you’re killing bosses at all instead of extending (which is another major problem).
If m+ does, then so does raid.
It doesn’t, though.
What really makes me sad about these threads is that the M+ players have zero understanding of how raid loot actually works (including the raid great vault).
Catalyst isn’t out for another 3 or 4 weeks, so no my point definitely still stands. Raiders are currently the only ones that can get tier with any reasonable amount of probability.
By the time M+ players are getting full tier all of the non-terrible players have gotten AOTC.
You understand that when they tune the raids they have to make the expected ilvl needed in order to kill the bosses lower than the ilvl the bosses drop right? You don’t need 447 gear from M+ to kill any boss below the mid to end Mythic bosses. Gear makes up for a lack of skill.
Oh originally it didn’t exist when they reworked gearing at the start of Shadowlands so a certain group of people whined about it endlessly as being good at PvP was an actual advantage in… raiding.
Yes of course, it was the raid loggers.
And now they’re after M+ gearing.
At which point tier becomes pointless.
It’s funny what Catalyst has done. At first everybody is “omg tier I need it naow” and then after Catalyst everyone is like “tier? I don’t want that crap”.
<—- raider. I know exactly how it works.
Then you wouldn’t have said something so stupid, so no.
If you do JUST ONE 20 key, you’re guaranteed a 447 piece in your vault.
You can FULL CLEAR the raid on Mythic, and not get anything in vault except 441 pieces.
Out of a pool of 200 items. I have already taken socket twice.
Vault is not the primary gearing system. It is power creep. Removing it or m+ doesn’t solve anything but make the game worse.
Bring back bonus rolls. Dinars. Allow pvp gear to be relevant. Bring back visions. Allow certain items to warforge 5 or 7 ilvls. Any or all of those would actually help.
Yea, which is why they then reduce the drop rate of tier tokens to compensate for the fact that most raiders already have 4-set at that point.
All of my points still stand; for some baffling reason the devs treat M+ like secondhand content when it’s the most popular endgame activity. If I had to guess it’s because they know raiding participation would fall off a cliff, not that it already hasn’t, if they gave M+ players a reliable way of getting tier early in the season.
It is during prog, because of the incredibly low number of items that drop from the bosses themselves.
You need to hit 5/9 progression before you’re even hitting break-point.