A full raid clear gives you about the same number of items per person as 5 dungeons.
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No. You are not a lot.
Except I have friends who also complain about having to do their weekly M+ grind. It’s a chore to a lot of people. But deny it all you want.
But not a single time are you forced to do it. If you hate it don’t do it. If Players have a path to get better to gear or really something to make a fight easier, they are gonna get it and use it. If you want the challenge of raiding without M+ gear helping you along you can do that. Players don’t supplement their raiding with M+ because they have to, they do it because it helps them not be stressed to the T about every last aspect of the fights.
Also it doesn’t feel good to go through a whole raid night and you got nothing to show for it. At least with M+ there’s a good chance to come out of it with some kind of upgrade so it feels good.
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You ain’t seen the DPS check on M Rashok.
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You do realize you are talking about Mythic right? Mythic, the tier where everything needs to be at the top of the top? Where very few of the players even bother?
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Or Heroic which 1 of my groups is hitting. Like yeah, eventually they could get enough gear if we only raid, but that could take weeks - especially for crests.
M+ is honestly the only true way to quickly progress past it
And yet also gives something like 8 dungeons worth of crests. And heroic items require less crests to upgrade. And you get the crests you want from heroic - you don’t have to do normal to get heroic crests.
A full raid clear generally takes less time than 5 keys so yes, it is faster.
I used to do “Cutting Edge” raiding as a 10m raider back in MoP. I did clear ToT and SoO on Heroic before they added Mythic to to game. Difference between then and now, back then there was no things like M+. I don’t bother Mythic raiding anymore due to all the “requirements” of guilds to be a Mythic raider. I have friends forced to do at minimum 8 keys at +20 a week just to raid with their guild. I told them they are crazy for doing it. M+ shouldn’t be forced on anyone, it’s dungeon content. Players should be able to pick a gearing path either M+ or raiding, and be able to do just 1 if they so choose. Mythic raiding should NOT have to require M+
Or stop overgearing fights and get good? Literally one of the easiest raids in 7 years.
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Saying the person who doesn’t raid and just does M+ lol.
Well, good thing you aren’t limited to 5 dungeons a week.
Depends. If your guild is clearing the difficulty above, probably. But if this is your highest difficulty (assuming you are farming it at this point), the full clear can take 3 hours. Alternately, trying to pug a full clear can easily take 8 hours on heroic.
In an efficient key farming group, you can do most samplings of 5 random dungeons in less than 3 hours.
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Yes. Says the person who raided Mythic last expansion for loot, found it 90% boring and annoying and did it for loot, and said I’d rather suffer not having tier than play that trivial slop.
Except you’ll get your tier with the catalyst
Meanwhile raiders will have to keep playing the trival slop called M+ for crests and higher ilvl loot from vaults
You will be done with crests long before I get tier.
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Mythic raiding is…a different beast. It’s not something I ever want to consider doing again. I’m not gonna argue what’s should and should not be required of a mythic raider because I have no horse in that race. What I will say is that if the option to overgear a fight is present, players will take it. Technically M+ is not needed to Mythic Raid. But the opportunity to overgear fights is something no Mythic Raiding guild is gonna pass on.
In a way M+ make raids more accessible. You used to have to pretty much raid each tier and if you missed one it was hard to get back in. Now you can slap some easy dungies and get into any raid, or skip raiding since the gear is comparable.
And remember that the race for rankings in raid happens at the start of the tier, where the weaknesses of raid gearing are the most obvious and prominant, whereas the M+ score title push is at the end, when this whole tier issue is a complete non-issue.
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If I only did raids and not M+ since I can’t full clear Heroic or even kill a single boss on Heroic yet with 1 of my groups, it will take way longer then 6 weeks or when the catalyst releases to get all my gear 8/8 Champion or 4/5 Heroic (since guilds who don’t Mythic raid - which none of mine do would get Aspect crests to get to 5/5) however I am very able to pug a +16 for aspect crests, but again that forces me into M+ and I know a lot of raiders who can’t or wont be doing that.
Tier is only one facet. It’s just the most glaring. Raid has cantrips, bonus item levels, and better trinkets. Those are just ignorable I’m the short term compared to the power diff of not having tier.
There isn’t a catalyst that disperses those rewards.