A continuation of my other threads, found here:
1: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752578668
2: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20755717466
3: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761766575
I have a knack for knowing and finding obscure references in lore and, generally, just knowing a lot about it.
If you have any lore questions, want some help with a character backstory or anything of the like, leave it in the comments and I will happy to do my research and help in any way I can!
I got a bunch of nifty-looking weapon appearances the other day from an Argus meta-achievement earned by wiping out every rare encounter on Argus. The problem is, nearly all of them have veins of pure light running along and through them. My question is, would a forsaken like myself be even able to hold these weapons?
There's been scores written about what happens when undead meet the business end of a light-infused weapon, but what might happen if one were to grab one by it's handle? Could a warrior like myself effectively use one if taking extra precaution not to make contact with say, the edge of a light-infused blade? Will even being that close to it for an extended period bring me ill effects?
I know, if at all possible, this would likely lead to an ironic demise, hoist by my own petard, dying like Wart in Super Mario Bros 2, et cetera, but if I was in a situation where it was all I had, could I make it work?
There's been scores written about what happens when undead meet the business end of a light-infused weapon, but what might happen if one were to grab one by it's handle? Could a warrior like myself effectively use one if taking extra precaution not to make contact with say, the edge of a light-infused blade? Will even being that close to it for an extended period bring me ill effects?
I know, if at all possible, this would likely lead to an ironic demise, hoist by my own petard, dying like Wart in Super Mario Bros 2, et cetera, but if I was in a situation where it was all I had, could I make it work?
04/30/2018 10:39 PMPosted by FlarepulseMy question is, would a forsaken like myself be even able to hold these weapons?
There's been scores written about what happens when undead meet the business end of a light-infused weapon, but what might happen if one were to grab one by it's handle? Could a warrior like myself effectively use one if taking extra precaution not to make contact with say, the edge of a light-infused blade? Will even being that close to it for an extended period bring me ill effects?
Common misconception, actually, but the undead can indeed utilize the Light. Undead priests are a thing in the lore and possibly some of the strongest resolve of any living being; using the Light puts them in constant pain, on par with being set on fire, but without actually showing physical affects. Likewise, the Bloodsworn comic showed us that undead can be healed by the Light as well, and although effective, puts them through a tremendous amount of pain. Wielding the Light successfully, both as a magic and physically in this case with a weapon, is based in one's willpower or faith in their own ability to it.
Round 2 of Ask CDev actually asks this question specifically, and Blizzard states the following:
For the undead (and Forsaken), this requires such a great deal of willpower that it is exceedingly rare, especially since it is self-destructive. When undead channel the Light, it feels (to them) as if their entire bodies are being consumed in righteous fire. Forsaken healed by the Light (whether the healer is Forsaken or not) are effectively cauterized by the effect: sure, the wound is healed, but the healing effect is cripplingly painful. Thus, Forsaken priests are beings of unwavering willpower; Forsaken (and death knight) tanks suffer nobly when they have priest and paladin healers in the group; and Sir Zeliek REALLY hates himself.
Record of undead emoting positive emotions are rare, though there are reports, however, that some Forsaken have slowly experienced a sharpening of their dulled senses of touch, smell, and so on, as well as an increase in the flashes of positive emotions that have otherwise become so rare since their fall into undeath, when influenced by the Holy Light. The drawback however, is that they also become disgusted with themselves and are likely to increase attempts at their own self-destruction; for regaining these senses would force the undead to smell their own rotting flesh, taste the decay in their mouths and throats, and even feel the maggots burrowing within their bodies.
So, yes, your character can wield those Light-infused weapons, but it will hurt constantly and they may begin to feel sensations of actually being dead.
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04/30/2018 10:39 PMPosted by FlarepulseI got a bunch of nifty-looking weapon appearances the other day from an Argus meta-achievement earned by wiping out every rare encounter on Argus. The problem is, nearly all of them have veins of pure light running along and through them. My question is, would a forsaken like myself be even able to hold these weapons?
I don't see why not. I mean the Light does not harm simply because it is the "Light". While very uncommon, Forsaken Priests do use the light even if it can be painful and maddening to do so.
04/30/2018 10:39 PMPosted by FlarepulseThere's been scores written about what happens when undead meet the business end of a light-infused weapon, but what might happen if one were to grab one by it's handle?
Depends on the weapon and perhaps the particular Forsaken's intent. A Weapon that is a living embodiment of the light such as the Ashbringer could be problematic regardless of what end they touch. Speaking of I don't think one even has to touch the Ashbringer to be effected with it. Can't it effect an area with its magic?
04/30/2018 10:39 PMPosted by FlarepulseCould a warrior like myself effectively use one if taking extra precaution not to make contact with say, the edge of a light-infused blade?
If there is a disconnect between the business end and that of the hilt then I don't see why not. It is likely true of any weapon though so may be a bit of a copout on my part but seems to work here regardless.
04/30/2018 10:39 PMPosted by FlarepulseWill even being that close to it for an extended period bring me ill effects?
This likely would be up to you. It is said that Forsaken Priests whom use the Light as opposed to just the shadow could find that their senses become more "alive". Suddenly capable of smelling their own rotting flesh, taste their own rotting tongue, and even feel the plethora of invading creatures crawling around their corpse of a body.
Ultimately it would be a constant never-ending battle between your own decaying body trying to rot naturally and the Light starving that off. Like that lad whom had his liver regrow every day only for it to be eaten by crows. Painful and maddening. Being simply near a light infused weapon for an extended period of time could have similar effects.
The question I'd ask due to "light" weapons being forged for combat rather than healing would it have a restorative effect or... Well you already know how it ends...
04/30/2018 10:39 PMPosted by FlarepulseI know, if at all possible, this would likely lead to an ironic demise, hoist by my own petard
As a Last resort I could see a Forsaken taking up such a weapon and if it did not outright kill them the "faith" or what have you could make for an interesting revival story as they became truly "alive" like they were once upon a time. I often times like to quote the Paladin's Warhorse(s) as great examples of the Light reversing the effects of Undeath. The thing about it is, a sentient being like a Forsaken may not mentally survive the change the same way a horse may.
I'm trying to come up with an interesting character backstory for a horde warlock. I'm between orc, undead, and blood elf. I know I'm going to main destro but I'll occasionally play affli too, I have no interest in demo. I know orcs have a lot of warlock lore, but I'm having trouble reconciling that orcs (at least those of us today and especially post-Legion who are trying to do good) would still want to be associated with warlocks at all. Any information on warlock lore for these races that I could apply to a character today would be immensely helpful.
Orc warlocks, as you mentioned, are probably not too well received in today's society. That isn't to say they aren't or can't be seen as useful. It doesn't take much for people to understand that having a person who not only fundamentally understands, but has the ability to enslave and control one of Azeroth's greatest threats is an extremely useful thing to have.
For a short time, Garrosh had a small regiment of orc warlocks under his command, but eventually got rid of them and by the time of the Siege, was openly killing them in public for conspiring with demons. Since then, both due to the fact that many were killed and the general consensus on warlocks has shifted slightly back to being negative, many New Horde orcs haven't sought training. We even see the Mag'har that will be joining the New Horde from Draenor also forbidding the act. If you wanted to go the orc route, I think the best bet would be to have your orc be an old practitioner who, through the years, has simply stuck with his mentality of fighting fire with fire.
Undead warlocks are obviously a lot more publicly accepted, at least in Forsaken territories. The quests Tainted Scroll and Piercing the Veil suggest many undead warlocks make their choice to feel in a position of power, or to regain certain senses. The feeling of fel magic coursing through their bodies is likely one of the few things they can actually feel, not to mention the theme of draining life for power is extremely fitting for the undead.
Blood elf warlocks are similarly rather accepted in public, considering the blood elves' past. After the Sunwell was corrupted by the Lich King, the blood elves resulted in using fel and covered their kingdom in massive fel crystals which, although removed in the lore, still appear around Quel'Thalas in-game. Blood elven warlocks frequently made a pretty penny actually summoning demons to drain their life energy for sustenance, per Night of the Dragon. It's how they got their green eyes, after all.
That being said, public opinion may have shifted after the Sunwell was restored with arcane and Light powers again. The blood elves' dependency on fel magic was removed, but I imagine many stuck with what they know.
For a short time, Garrosh had a small regiment of orc warlocks under his command, but eventually got rid of them and by the time of the Siege, was openly killing them in public for conspiring with demons. Since then, both due to the fact that many were killed and the general consensus on warlocks has shifted slightly back to being negative, many New Horde orcs haven't sought training. We even see the Mag'har that will be joining the New Horde from Draenor also forbidding the act. If you wanted to go the orc route, I think the best bet would be to have your orc be an old practitioner who, through the years, has simply stuck with his mentality of fighting fire with fire.
Undead warlocks are obviously a lot more publicly accepted, at least in Forsaken territories. The quests Tainted Scroll and Piercing the Veil suggest many undead warlocks make their choice to feel in a position of power, or to regain certain senses. The feeling of fel magic coursing through their bodies is likely one of the few things they can actually feel, not to mention the theme of draining life for power is extremely fitting for the undead.
Blood elf warlocks are similarly rather accepted in public, considering the blood elves' past. After the Sunwell was corrupted by the Lich King, the blood elves resulted in using fel and covered their kingdom in massive fel crystals which, although removed in the lore, still appear around Quel'Thalas in-game. Blood elven warlocks frequently made a pretty penny actually summoning demons to drain their life energy for sustenance, per Night of the Dragon. It's how they got their green eyes, after all.
That being said, public opinion may have shifted after the Sunwell was restored with arcane and Light powers again. The blood elves' dependency on fel magic was removed, but I imagine many stuck with what they know.
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05/01/2018 12:57 PMPosted by CannibalUndead warlocks are obviously a lot more publicly accepted, at least in Forsaken territories. The quests Tainted Scroll and Piercing the Veil suggest many undead warlocks make their choice to feel in a position of power, or to regain certain senses. The feeling of fel magic coursing through their bodies is likely one of the few things they can actually feel, not to mention the theme of draining life for power is extremely fitting for the undead.
Thank you. I think given how Azeroth's society is in it's current state, undead is the clear way to go if you want to dabble with dark powers. Does a backstory of something along the lines of a powerful mage in life seeking a greater and darker power in undeath fit the mold of an undead lock? Chaos and especially Shadow magic seems right up their alley.
05/01/2018 01:25 PMPosted by MedeƮsDoes a backstory of something along the lines of a powerful mage in life seeking a greater and darker power in undeath fit the mold of an undead lock?
Certainly, that's actually the backstory of one of my own undead warlocks as well! It's a very fitting trope.
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Kelāthuzad comes to mind. Of a manner.05/01/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Cannibal05/01/2018 01:25 PMPosted by MedeĆ®sDoes a backstory of something along the lines of a powerful mage in life seeking a greater and darker power in undeath fit the mold of an undead lock?
Certainly, that's actually the backstory of one of my own undead warlocks as well! It's a very fitting trope.
What do orcs call their spouses? Mates? Wives/husbands? Is it as formal as humans in that you have a ring and never accept additional partners?
Interesting question. I have no answer, but it did spark another question along those lines.05/03/2018 12:26 AMPosted by LoranarisWhat do orcs call their spouses? Mates? Wives/husbands? Is it as formal as humans in that you have a ring and never accept additional partners?
Gnomes. Could they be considered "poly amorous" by nature? Perhaps a cultural inclination? Gnome tend to not carry family names. Names given at birth can be replaced on a whim it seems when the child is older, plus other names are either adopted by the individual or given by the community to reflect achievements or accomplishments. Which suggests to me a greater involvement of the community in each other's lives. Greater emphasis on the village as a whole and less on the individual family unit. It's easy for Gnomes to loose track of their heritage/genealogy within only a couple of generations.
Could it be inferred then that the family unit isn't as important to Gnomes as a people?
Could this also suggest that monogamy isn't as culturally prevalent/important?
Just a curiosity that literally popped up from reading Loranaris' orc questions.
Thoughts?
05/03/2018 12:26 AMPosted by LoranarisWhat do orcs call their spouses? Mates? Wives/husbands? Is it as formal as humans in that you have a ring and never accept additional partners?
Both mate and husband/wife has been used interchangeably in the lore. Rise of the Horde has Durotan and Draka calling each other life mates, and of course the classic "Have you seen my wife?" from Mankrik confirms that they call each other that as well.
There's been no indication that a ring is ever involved in proposals. Durotan and Draka participated in a courtship hunt on Draenor, where the two stripped down and sought large game in the wilds. Once completed, they were considered together. We also see a more humanized wedding via Thrall and Aggra in Hyjal, though still no indication of a ring being present.
As for polygamy, there's never been an indication that orcs participate in that. Unlike in some other fantasy universes, orcs usually stick with their one mate.
05/03/2018 01:27 AMPosted by CaileanmorCould they be considered "poly amorous" by nature? Perhaps a cultural inclination? Gnome tend to not carry family names. Names given at birth can be replaced on a whim it seems when the child is older, plus other names are either adopted by the individual or given by the community to reflect achievements or accomplishments. Which suggests to me a greater involvement of the community in each other's lives. Greater emphasis on the village as a whole and less on the individual family unit. It's easy for Gnomes to loose track of their heritage/genealogy within only a couple of generations.
Could it be inferred then that the family unit isn't as important to Gnomes as a people?
Could this also suggest that monogamy isn't as culturally prevalent/important?
Just a curiosity that literally popped up from reading Loranaris' orc questions.
Unfortunately for gnomes, we have even less in this regard. I think your speculation is pretty spot-on and I don't see anything wrong with moving forward with those ideas. The only actual mentions of relationships we've had in the lore have been a few married couples here and there, and that's about it.
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Thanks for the info. As for Cail's reply, I've always been of the assumption that the longer lived the race, the more open they are to doing multiple relationships at once. Look at draenei. Tens of thousands of years is a long time to be in an exclusive relationship.
Gnomes live a bit longer too, right? Several centuries if I remember correctly. They're also a proud and practical people, so it makes sense that they don't really have an emphasis on something they might view as more tradition than anything else.
Gnomes live a bit longer too, right? Several centuries if I remember correctly. They're also a proud and practical people, so it makes sense that they don't really have an emphasis on something they might view as more tradition than anything else.
05/03/2018 05:39 PMPosted by LoranarisGnomes live a bit longer too, right? Several centuries if I remember correctly.
The only lore age we have for gnomes is that by 22, they're still considered teenagers. Presumably this means a longer life than the average human, but we have no idea when they get close to old age.
The RPG states they can live to be up to 500 years old, but the RPG also says high elves reach adulthood at 110 and die of old age at 400, which is ridiculous. I don't trust anything from it.
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Oh I see. Still, you've got some great points there, Cail. I'll definitely be headcanoning that.
So how fast can Worgen run, when on all fours?
If game mechanics holds any truth then at least as fast as any horse. Not counting mount speeds, I believe on two quest occasions Worgen are seen running you down on horse back. Once in the fall of Gilneas opening area for Worgen and once in Grizzly Hills when you and [whatshername] escape from that wolf cult.05/07/2018 01:46 PMPosted by DardillienSo how fast can Worgen run, when on all fours?
I agree with this, but I also like to headcanon fudge the lines a little using the RPG stats. Such as it stating for Gnomes that a Venerable age is around 200. So I rekon Cailās age in the 160s or so. No one knows how long they live since they typically die mid age from engineering accidents, not to mention the whole Fall of Gnomeregan thing likely skews any data. But I like to think theyāre at least as long lived as Dwarfs.05/03/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Cannibal05/03/2018 05:39 PMPosted by LoranarisGnomes live a bit longer too, right? Several centuries if I remember correctly.
The only lore age we have for gnomes is that by 22, they're still considered teenagers. Presumably this means a longer life than the average human, but we have no idea when they get close to old age.
The RPG states they can live to be up to 500 years old, but the RPG also says high elves reach adulthood at 110 and die of old age at 400, which is ridiculous. I don't trust anything from it.
05/03/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Cannibal05/03/2018 05:39 PMPosted by LoranarisGnomes live a bit longer too, right? Several centuries if I remember correctly.
The only lore age we have for gnomes is that by 22, they're still considered teenagers. Presumably this means a longer life than the average human, but we have no idea when they get close to old age.
The RPG states they can live to be up to 500 years old, but the RPG also says high elves reach adulthood at 110 and die of old age at 400, which is ridiculous. I don't trust anything from it.
Fond as I am of the RPG (I have one of every book from both editions) It should be noted that Metzen declared it non-canon in its entirety.
05/07/2018 03:18 PMPosted by CaileanmorIf game mechanics holds any truth then at least as fast as any horse. Not counting mount speeds, I believe on two quest occasions Worgen are seen running you down on horse back. Once in the fall of Gilneas opening area for Worgen and once in Grizzly Hills when you and [whatshername] escape from that wolf cult.05/07/2018 01:46 PMPosted by DardillienSo how fast can Worgen run, when on all fours?
I'd say this is a good way to put it.
05/07/2018 04:52 PMPosted by DrahlianaFond as I am of the RPG (I have one of every book from both editions) It should be noted that Metzen declared it non-canon in its entirety.
Oh, I'm aware. :) I've spent countless hours removing RPG lines from Wowpedia. It's a neat universe, but one that's very, very separate from the actual canonical one.
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