Looking for sales clarification please

Community General Discussion
1

Dear Blizzard,

I am writing this as I would like some clarification on a few things regarding sales going forward as it’s a bit confusing.

Advertising & Sales: What is or isn’t Okay
My understanding is sales by guilds are still allowed as long as we’re using the trade channel to do so.

“Individuals and guilds selling items and services for gold is allowed but can only be advertised in-game through the Trade chat channel.”

(Source: https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/187406)

However, one post states you can’t advertise cross realm.

“This means there should be no cross-realm advertising, and there should be no advertising from non-participating players.”

(Source: Boosting/RMT advertising - #9 by Kaivax)

It then states very clearly that you can’t advertise cross realm only if the character posting for the sale isn’t participating.

“Advertising for gameplay activities should be done by a WoW player-character who intends to participate in the gameplay activities.”

(Source: Boosting/RMT advertising - #9 by Kaivax)

So does this mean if say I am in Guild X on Mal’ganis but my max level geared alt is still on my old realm Zul’jin, I can advertise sales on Zul’jin with my alt as long as I participate in the run with my guild? The goal is still to sell stuff for my guild (which is allowed) but the question is can advertise in that trade for my guild as long as I am participating (which was stated in the post)? It says no cross-realm advertising but this seems to be contradictory as well.

So far, I am understanding we can’t cross realm advertise without a character on another realm that intends to participate. What does intent to participate mean? What if the alt you’re advertising on for your team can only clear so many bosses? For example, say I advertise we’re selling Sylvanas and I’m clearing with my guild but my actual character will not be attending Sylvanas because of composition reasons. Or what if I am just playing poorly and need to be sat at some point? Connection issues? Or what if I need to swap to my main or a different alt for an immunity? These are all common and realistic scenarios.

Has there been any thought put into how this affects smaller servers? There are still guilds that raid competitively that are attached to their small realms, but the way this reads means that the cost and quantity of materials needed to raid makes it untenable to stay on said server. There simply isn’t the same quantity of materials (much less buyers) on small realms to support the needs of competitive guilds. Historically, these guilds have accepted off-server gold and used it to buy materials, and then transfer over the bank of goodies. At the start of Shadowlands, for example, many guilds had to transfer in materials in order to level up legendary bases for their guild, since there simply wasn’t enough available on-realm.

So that also brings up a new question – where else are we now allowed to advertise. For years, we’ve used trade chat and the forums. Are forums still allowed? Discord came along in what – 2015? Starting picking up for World of Warcraft around 2016/2017, which then prompted a lot of new options. Boosting was obviously one but I really don’t care and have never liked those discords lol – can probably ask anyone.

That being said, I currently run a recruitment discord whose sole purpose is to help people find homes, but we have had a sales channel for 6 years. It obviously stopped being used regularly by guilds when boosting came around, but are we still allowed to let guilds advertise their guild sales there? We verify that the guilds are actual guilds, make them be specific who is allowed to accept gold on behalf of the guild (scammers will always exist, but we try and at least verify people wanting to sell here, including enforcing a blizzard connection to the discord and they need to be raiding officers) and list realms they accept gold (some only accept on their own). Most accept on 1-2 realms (home realm or a realm where players have alts on since most raiders are transferring anyways to raid with these guilds). I have disabled the channel until I have clarification either way. I for one freaking hate boosting discords but still want guilds to have access to players looking to buy stuff because guilds heavily spend at the start of a new tier for any number of things.

PS this whole thing here (referring to GDKP runs):
“That depends on the definition of “financially”. If it means an exchange of gold only without a middleman entity, then it sounds like the same sort of guild activities players have been enjoying for 17 years, which are not the focus of this policy update.”

(Source: Ty blizz for the policy update - #12 by Kaivax)

Usually one player would collect the gold and then split it between everyone else. This is typically not a guild activity either, just a pug (pick up group). I guess I’m confused about this being okay as well since the person holding the gold until the end would be against the new rules? I haven’t personally participated in GDKP since Wrath but since it was mentioned by someone else, it does have me curious lol.

Gold

Given how much transferring of gold was happening just from boosting discords alone, I am curious if we’re still allowed to keep a guild on a separate realm and then transfer it. Assuming the one blue post wasn’t wrong, cross realm sales are still allowed but I would like verification we can still collect gold from other realms. We’ve always transferred characters with gold, traded gold with other guilds (realm exchange so no one has to transfer anything, just swap it for their own realm with a diff guild that has gold on their realm) or transferred guild banks with supplies and gold (supplies for smaller realms bc that is part of the reason for the gold anyways lol).

New Concerns

So now that we are of the understanding guilds can do sales, what will happen to those guilds participating appropriately while there are currently new groups being set up under the guise of guilds with the purpose of boosting? I already see it in my recruitment discord. The allure of just playing for gold is much too high for some people apparently.

Depending how the other questions are answered, small realms are basically doomed if cross realm sales are disallowed in the prior fashion while others exploit the new rules - boosting discords disguised as guilds whose sole purpose is to do sales all day. This will create new problems in the future for long standing and new guilds that do rely on sales for providing their teams with consumables, legendaries, and repairs.

Thank you!

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My take is, you can only advertise this on the character you planning the runs on, so you should only advertise on the Zul’jin character as long as that is the character you will be doing the runs with. Only advertise on your guild character for your guild runs.

I would anticipate the support article to be updated as they clarify these new rules.

But I would also anticipate you might run into issues with being reported for a while due to this policy change, in which case you should simply need to appeal it if it happens. CS is having to adjust as they go.

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Not a blizz rep. But looking at your example above:

  • The guild is on Mal’ganis
  • The advertisement is on ZG
  • presumably the customer you are advertizing to is on ZG. right?

How does your guild on Mal’ganis collect the gold from the customer on ZG?
To me that’s the core disconnect. This business model can only work where there is some 3rd party gold-transferring “escrow” service.

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You can advertise if the servers are connected. Advertising for a carry done on a different (not connected) realm is not allowed anymore, that’s kind of the whole point.

If you’re doing the boost on Mal’ganis, you only advertise on Mal’ganis and you collect gold on Mal’ganis. I hope this helps.

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Guilds have always had banks on other realms to eventually transfer the gold to their server. That isn’t something boosting discords did themselves. Guilds have done this since cross realm has been allowed (what like Cataclysm I think?). I spent up til like mid BFA on a small realm mind you, I just picked two random servers for the example.

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My understanding is this they are changing. Trying to get away from the incorporated multi-realm organizations. Because in your example, the customer isn’t paying the guild - the customer is paying “someone else” who eventually move that gold around.

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You have to advertise on the same realm cluster as the one you’re doing the carry on, and the only people who can advertise are the people (read: same characters, not alts or other non-participating guild members) who will be performing the carry.

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Guilds have never been multi-realm organizations. Trying to get gold to a small realm like Turalyon or idk like Dunemaul right where there are very few people in general is something guilds have done. Not everyone started on a realm that became a giant. Heck some of the massive realms from Vanilla just died off big time which was interesting to see. Even Alliance tanked over time. This was how gold was made for those guilds since sales on realm are limited.

The gold is paid to someone who is part of the guild and raids/does the sales. I’m not sure what you mean paying someone else. If you pay me and I put it in a bank and I attend the sale, it’s still me and my guild not someone else.

Anyways, none of this affects me atm but it does affect a lot of guilds I know. I left my small realm and this will 100% impact them if anything you’re saying is accurate (they are pretty vague but could be for a reason). I’m just going to wait for an official response if they even give one.

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Maybe I’m not following your example… but in the example your Guild is on Malganis, your character is on ZG, and your customer is on ZG. They cannot pay you to deposit in your guild bank.

Like to make it simple, think of it this way - if the runner guild is on Mal’ganis thier Customers are on Mal’ganis. It’s pretty simple.

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I’ve had plenty of customers cross realm purchase tokens or farm gold on my server in the past too not just us taking gold on that realm. There are several ways to do it. Gold on a realm is just the easiest even if it’s super inconvenient. We would often look at the AH, use the gold and buy consumables/items too and transfer that back. Not sure if you’ve ever looked at a smaller realm AH but it’s pretty expensive. There are other benefits to taking gold on a larger realm.

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This change is basically death knell for mythic raiding guilds on small servers.

time to bail.

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This is the way I understand the new rules.

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Like let’s say: I take it on myself as a customer, to buy a boost - but there are zero people on my server to do it. We’ll call my server Lonely Island. I think it would be acceptable if I took it upon myself to make an Alt on Malganas, saw your trade-chat ad on Mal’ganas, found your boosting guild, sold a token on Mal’ganis, paid you, and said “ok please rush my toon from Lonely Island” - this all seems within the rules.

What is barred (now) is you taking it upon yourself as the seller to advertise on Lonely Island server.

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You wouldn’t be confused if you weren’t trying to bend the rules and find loop holes.

You can advertise that you, or your guild is doing a run with you, in trade chat on the server where the transaction of gold will take place.

It’s that simple.

Think about it from the buyers POV.
You tell me you’re selling a run.
But I have to do the deal on another server, with another character?

That makes no sense from a security of purchase perspective.

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Basically no more carries done by people who are on different servers than the buyer, all must be done with players and buyers on the same server (group). All advertising must be done on that server as well. I think it’s pretty straightforward.

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I wish you guys would actually acknowledge sales =/= boosting. I don’t know what a boosting guild is beyond the boosting discords circumventing the new rules. Guilds are guilds. It is a team of players who raid content and if they can sell stuff to make their experience better, they do (aka less time having to farm/do dailies/etc). I don’t even understand why it’s called boosting btw. I guess I’m too ancient to really understand why it went from sales of gear and mounts to a new term.

I mean I personally think people should also just raid but you know, that’s just me lol. I’m just asking, none of this matters to me since I haven’t played in a real capacity in a long time.

Hopefully Blizzard will have a better response than this for small realms. They are the most impacted by all of this. I just want to know if they can still advertise as a guild only on discord or not since I had to hide a channel for their safety just in case. I’m just on the recruitment side of all this. Recruiting is more fun than the game itself. :smiley:

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PS someone just told me bnet cap is still 200. Please fix. -_- This has been a recruitment nightmare forever.

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I don’t believe this to be true. You and your 4 buddies who push keys together can all be from different realms. Each will advertise on his own realm. When someone wants to buy a carry, they pay him and he keeps the gold. Next carry gets sold on a different realm by a different member who also keeps the gold they pay him.

I think that should work.

19

Yeah that would be fine, good way to work it out. As long as you don’t have buyers paying people who aren’t on their servers. I was thinking that people would want a cut for each sale, but if you run with the same people often, y’all probably trust each other enough. If you play together all the time, y’all probably aren’t going to be the ones affected by this change. The requirement is that the person who is paid must participate in the run, and be paid on the same character. So as long as you aren’t making alts to collect gold on other servers, that should be fine. It would also be fine to sell carries on your alt and collect gold on the server your alt is on. Remember that this change is to stop hard-to-track shuffling of gold (because of gold sales for IRL money), but actions within the same server with a direct trade to the booster should be fine.

Keep in mind that you can’t control the distrubution of buyers, so if you have someone on A52 and three on velen, the A52 person is going to be making bank. It’ll probably be hard to find buyers on velen so make sure your group is okay with less popular servers not making as much. (Or do like 1/30 as many carries on A52 if you want cuts to be fair)

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This is very supply side thinking. If a customer want sa service, it will NOT be hard to find one. Even if they are on a realm with only themselves. Creating an alt on a high-pop server to locate a seller of the service you want is easy.

Also maybe it makes a niche for a rag-tag group of 5 entrepreneurs to create a M+20 selling team to service Lonely Island without having to be drowned out by the other 100+ service providers and being priced out out by the huge providers.

From the customer side, they are only going to be faced with advertisements from their own server. They go from being a customer of literally everyone selling their services to just the “locals”. It’s a better experience for the player overall.

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