Long time FFXIV player thoughts on general gameplay

Community General Discussion
362

I’m not saying ARR is that bad, or even the other examples from other games in the JRPG genre… but it’s still a problem, and one which has a strong tendency to rear it’s head very frequently.

Because, at the end of the day, people are still saying “it gets better with HW”… and that’s a LOOOOOOOONG ways off for anyone struggling with the doldrums of Titan. Truth be told, saying that things get interesting in the immediate aftermath of Titan - which they actually do with the Garleans raiding the Waking Sands - would be far better. But even then, FFXIV still doesn’t properly start hitting it’s stride until you’re in the Patch 2.4 MSQ and hearing about “Iceheart”.

But again, this is a problem that is VERY common for JRPGs… and I can pull out some easy examples:

  • Kingdom Hearts II, specifically the tedious start of the game in Twilight Town.
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2 doesn’t quite have a firm point for when it “gets better”, but it’s definitely thick on on the cheesy anime-heavy gags in the first half of the game and it more or less stops making jokes in the main story once you past the halfway point or so.
  • Final Fantasy XIII, which has a less-than-stellar reputation overall, is still noted as getting better when the game FINALLY opens up… just before the final leg of the game’s story. This is an extreme case of taking far too long to “get better”.

And I’m sure I could find other examples of similar follies, but it’s quite pervasive in the genre to have a sluggish start.

There’s actually a trope dedicated to this issue:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlowPacedBeginning

And needless to say… I think Blizz is DESPERATE to avoid WoW becoming caught in this particular problem. Could be due to the fact countless players never made it past the aptly-named Barrens in WoW’s older years. The catch being that they’ve gone so far the other way that no one actually knows what’s going on… unless they go out of their way to research the lore and read all the supplementary information outside the game.

363

Hey thanks for such a constructive post (Love these type of post, very useful to keep an eye out on these stuff more clearly)! I always treated the games separately for the reasons you posted… and when I got tired jump to something else, but your post sums up pretty well my friends and my own experience with both titles.

I do have to confirm strongly that I especially agree with the part of FOMO and the magic/abilities VFX, literally had made friends I try to get them to play to just walk away never to try WoW again. (I know it may sound silly to some, but a lot of gamers love having strong visuals when doing their abilities, summoning mounts, teleporting or when casting magics as it’s probably the part of the game that truly makes them feel immerse with the PC)

However FOMO lately has with my friends at least become a literal wall… Visuals I can convince and I seen that can be improve… but I can never get them to try a again a game that takes things from them in the online setting that they pay for or are paying for. (This applies more for D2 than WoW)
Have had this issue with Destiny 2 specifically recently and to some lesser degree with WoW.

364

I guess I just don’t see it as a “problem”.

I never saw what was so wrong with a story that takes time to set itself up, because usually, most stories that do that, have GIANT payoffs later.

I know there’s a whole trope around it and everything, that don’t mean I agree that it’s an actual problem per se.

365

It’s probably better to say it’s a common issue - one which players can sometimes get a bit too comfortable/complacent with - which I think can be improved with reworking the opening to have a good “early hook”. Without that cause to motivate the player into pursuing the plot further, excessive world-building & exposition can feel like pointless meandering. This causes a LOT of newcomers to lose their motivation.

Arguably, this is why WoW blitzes players through the leveling process - because much of the questing experience IS pointless meandering, often with little cohesion to it. The hope is that by the time they hit the level cap, they’re invested enough in the systems to get caught up playing the game in for a long time. Or alternatively, they figure most players leveling are alts who want to get back into the endgame systems ASAP.

… it might honestly be assuming the latter at this point.

Anyhow, there are counterpoints in other JRPGs… and even FFXIV itself:

  • Since I mentioned XC2, Xenoblade Chronicles (1) has a brilliant opening act that is the perfect set-up for the rest of the plot… which turns into a progressive exploration of the setting with and a lot of exposition and mysteries to nudge it along. It even flips the “hook” on its head about halfway through the main story, leaning even further into the mystery elements which it was building up all along.
  • FFXIV has a masterful “hook”… just before Heavensward, with the infamous 45-minute sequence of cutscenes that completely changes the direction of the plot. Those events end up being of little consequence in the grander scheme of things, but the player is HOOKED into seeing what happens next.
  • Similarly, also in FFXIV… the lead-up to Shadowbringers is presenting a growing problem that the player is eager to solve as it’s affecting characters they’ve grown to care about and themselves. Then there’s the scenario carrying the momentum through ShB to EW, making the two expansions start to feel more like a single large story arc.

It’s mostly a case of not having a good “early hook” in those opening hours, or at least taking too long to reach it. I find it to be something the genre as a whole can improve upon, without compromising those “big pay offs” that come later.

366

Wow has a much better story. That’s not saying much considering FFXIV has the worst story in modern media history. At least the last 3 xpacs were only enjoyable to weeaboo losers who never consume anything but awful anime. The first 3 xpacs had a somewhat coherent story to be fair.

But FFXIV does a lot better than WoW in many ways mentioned above. The FFXIV community is filled with actual sex offenders sadly though.

367

What exactly are you saying no is the answer to? They didn’t say to change WoW, they pointed out that they’re just looking at differences they like and dislike between the two games.

You are one person. You represent nobody but yourself.

368

Gosh, it been so long since I touched it, I can’t really remember why I didn’t play again. My apologies!

369

When I tried FFXIV, my first words were, “I’m going to make a Catgirl.” My next words were, “I want to play a mage.” (The FFXIV community says it has a high skill expression, I wanted to try it out, but I wasn’t going to read a guide.)

Well, my BLM was 1-3 buttons for 40 hours. It’s just too simple. Astrologian was another high-skill expression caster, so I wanted to try that, but my patience was gone by the time ARR was over.

So, the actual reason is because WoW players are sold on the expansion, not the entirety of the game.

FFXIV is effectively the MSQ. So, you sell people the MSQ. But, Endwalker, for example, if people thought the classes , systems, graphics, etc. were awesome and they wanted to see Endwalker content… they’d need to go through like 200-300 hours of MSQ to get to that point. In effect, you sold them on Endwalker, and literally did not let them experience Endwalker.

WoW sells you on the new classes, races, systems, etc. They absoultely rush you into that expansion, but it takes 20-40 hours for a brand new player, and usually less than 20 hours for a returning player.

If a player has 8 hours per week to play (which is a lot):

  • FFXIV = 200-300hrs = 25-40 weeks. (~6 months)
  • WoW = 20-40hrs = ~3-5 weeks. (~1 month)

And to be clear, it’s fantastic FFXIV has so much content to do. But that’s only true if you were sold on the MSQ, and not the expansion itself. Painter looks really cool! But it takes 200hrs to get to it. The thing you sold the customer on isn’t able to experience the thing they explicitly wanted to play.

That’s the difference between WoW and FFXIV when it comes to serving new players.

370

Except when it comes to housing, which is why I refuse to give SE any more money. He was perfectly happy to take away my house that I spent hours upon hours on because I didn’t log in when expected. If they ever make it so that actual housing (and not just an apartment) is available for every single character on every single world, and it is never taken away (demolished), then I’ll return. Games should never take away what a player has earned, period.

Other than that, your OP is spot on with the pros and cons of each game. I like(d) both; as a casual, solo player, there has always been more to do for me in WoW than in FFXIV, the combat feels better in WoW, but the story is better in FF, and I loved my house in FF. If I could just have one game that took the best of each, I’d be happiest. :dracthyr_blob_dance_animated:

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371

Some slight corrections there:

  • While jobs do require the associated expansion to play them, the general trend is for the unlock requirements to be linked to the player’s level only. To pull out a fast example, SAM and RDM (added in SB and now part of the free trial) only require the player be level 50 on any combat job to unlock them (and they start at level 50). The starting quests for the jobs are both in Ul’dah, and later jobs can all be found in the starting cities. Also, jobs added in ShB, EW and DT can be unlocked well before reaching the expansion; just as an example, one of my alts is in early HW (just starting the Churning Mists zone) but has Reaper from EW unlocked (level 70).
  • The notable exception is the jobs added in HW, because their starting quests are located in the main city of that expansion. You have to reach the expansion before you can play them solely because of where the quests are located, while you don’t even have to finish the ARR 2.0 MSQ to unlock SAM and RDM.
  • Reaching to higher levels early is usually a matter of doing a LOT of roulettes for one reason or another; I think I was doing PvP as I was working on the getting the glamour set from the last series in EW. I don’t think XP from quests decreases (though patch cycle quests probably award far less than leveling ones), but you’re pretty much guaranteed to outpace the level of the content you’re doing at this stage. Luckily, level sync prevents steamrolling older content (usually). So while pushing level 70-80 is possible while in the 50-60 expansion, that will largely come from daily roulette bonuses past a certain point.

That being said… FFXIV is definitely sold as the “whole package” out of necessity. To get the most out of the game, you need to be in it for the long haul and several hundred hours of story-driven content.

372

I would not say that was a failure of his desires, but a huge failure of the chosen technical system. Probably talking to one of the loudest mouths of instanced housing on the FFXIV forums as well, so you’re talking to the choir lol.

The taken away element being a reality of the terrible system they put in place (wards, as they made them). If they didn’t then they would fill housing up and never unfill it.

So I 10000000000000000000000% agree with you that the housing thing is terrible. But I wouldn’t say it counters what I was saying there. You can see it how they respond to bugs, imbalances, and general content in the game.

Also I would love to see the best taken from both too :).

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373

You’re right. In fact Activision-Blizzard had two psychologists on staff for years who were not for use by employees but employed to suggest psychologically manipulative tactics and avenues for exploiting psychology to abuse players for greater profit. I’m sure their guides are still used in game design.

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374

The person you were replying to needs to remember what Blizzard did to the poor Garrisons for much the same reasons.

I think everyone can agree the housing system is terrible. But…

1). It is better than no housing at all,
2). The coming update is one step closer to Instanced Housing which means we are slowly winning the tug o’ war,
3). Better and faster hardware increases the housing limits regularly,
4). It simply isn’t feasible which most sane/reasonable people would conclude and just accept it as big dreams, but not feasible yet.

EDIT: As for them taking your house away, that too is a necessary evil. There are probably 100x people who want houses, than there are houses available. If you can’t find it in you to log in once per, what was that again, 45-60 days and visit your house, then why do you HAVE a house in the first place? Heck, they even send you warning emails if you’re approaching the deadline. Meanwhile there’s 100 people lined up, some of whom might actually use their house regularly if they had one. It’s only fair that they get it.

I say this as a person who dumped probably 20% of my bank account into a small house some years ago. I lost interest in the game (temporarily during a huge content drought like many do), I wasn’t logging on, so before I lost the house, I stripped it down, and willingly put it up for sale. I understood that there’d be someone else out there who’d happily use it and enjoy it and that it was greedy and selfish of me to hoard it to myself if I wasn’t using it.