Long time FFXIV player, huge fan of WC3, strayed from WoW in TBC due to the time commitment and finding it unhealthy (better than FFXI / EQ, sure, but still quite needy lol).
Some thoughts and fears as I was playing (as the FFXIV forums loves hearing about WoW I’m sure here loves FFXIV… heh… But comparison can be helpful).
- [+] Love the movement compared to FFXIV, abilities feel snappy and 3d. Unlike FFXIV where movement abilities are flat (they don’t have a 3d component, you slide on the ground even if it’s a jump). In line with movement, there seems to be better encouragement for exploration with chests and more unique quests- FFXIV’s FATEs tend to be kill X quests and there is near zero reasons to explore.
- [-] I dislike the vanilla UI’s ability to communicate, and I find mechanics themselves “tend” to be less interesting mechanically. Perhaps because FFXIV’s jobs are mechanically more straight forward it makes up for it in the fight. Here though I feel like I have to have 3 or 4 different addons to get the same amount of info I get by default in FFXIV, and those addons have millions of installs which makes it clear that… imo… they should have been default in some way. Info, that to my eyes, feels like it should be default. Like some stuff that comes from plater, at least.
- [+] The roleplay gameplay of classes is way better than the roleplay of jobs in FFXIV. Even simple things like a double jump and glide on DH makes me KNOW I am a DH… can’t forget it. When I switch classes I’m immediately aware of the difference. In FFXIV they are not a can of paint difference, but they’re damn near lol. The pets are tangible and meaningful, in FFXIV they struggled with pets so much the system was removed (essentially). There is less of a fear to have a neat standout feature, and it makes classes more pronounced for it.
- [-] Having watched WoW long term, but also recently, seems to have a issue with just pure abandoning classes / specs, and will allow bugs to exist for long periods of time. Bugs happen in FFXIV but they seem to be taken care of faster. With rare exception jobs will be adjusted quickly to ensure there is a tight relationship (less true in early expansions, but has been true for a while). My opinion is that it seems to be doing better, but while FFXIV isn’t perfect I feel will issue a temporary adjustment sooner (and will fix bugs faster). FFXIV has rarely nerfs, so you rarely feel worse about your own job (reworks can be a fun time though)- here WoW is very comfortable nerfing things. Also WoW is comfortable taking away things in general from players*, like your artifact weapons (power)… Something I doubt FFXIV would ever do. *I would say this might underlay the fears I have itself, where it seems like maybe not spite but an absolute willingness to have the ends always justify the means. Not sure I’d say a disrespect but I would say I definitely feel FFXIV respects their players more often, more consistently.
- [+] Warbands is awesome as it lets me have a different roleplay vibe while approaching jobs. This is actually a primary feature of why I gave WoW a chance again. Delves and being more solo friendly game being another. I don’t think I will EVER seriously try an MMO that doesn’t have semblance of a job system, it’s just way too cool and useful (doesn’t literally have to be jobs, but functionally works-- Warbands isn’t quite perfect but it is approaching what I’d consider close to a job system).
- [-] FFXIV jobs are still more streamlined and certain things I don’t like in WoW, significantly, that I appreciate in FFXIV. For example I understand there would need to be compromise on lockout systems, but I don’t like this warbound vs soulbound stuff. I would prefer account bound everything. FFXIV’s armoury also is easier for me to organize my thoughts around, when I change specs and want different stats I find it more annoying here (not impossible just liked the separate nature of active equipment). Ideal situation for me would be account bound all items and quests, so I can do MSQ on Paladin and continue it on Demon Hunter. Lockouts and vaults would need adjusted though… its not a simple thought, but FFXIV I feel ends up respecting my time when wanting to multi-job and while WoW is trying… is not nearly as kind to multi-classing. Professions might fit in here a little, I know you can do most of it through orders / bank sharing but not really entirely. To note I play multiple jobs because I find it fun, not because I want to check 60 garrisons and do 20 great vaults (so when I want to multi-class in this game, it’s not because I want a second job from my real job… I just want to experience the variety without the pain of doing the same content again and again to get the things I’ve already got). Prior to warbands I would never have thought such a desire was reasonable, but now that it exists I feel fair to express it (as you’re pretty close).
- [+] Delves, I enjoy the mutations and different locations. I appreciate the added ability to progress fairly substantially with them. I can see mutations in other systems, it’s interesting. I also like the companion leveling… FFXIV has companions but they’re wet noodles and their leveling is near meaningless which feels bad. I would say in general both on these delves but content as a whole that WoW scales content way better than FFXIV. Yes I have seen the scaling system issues, so I know it isn’t perfect. Yet in FFXIV when you scale you scale your kit, messing up muscle memory and often feeling really bad gameplay wise… content has poor scaling so its likely you’ll destroy it but with bad gameplay lol. I haven’t touched Mythic simply because I greatly dislike the idea that I could use the limited time I play to achieve nothing because someone didn’t do what they needed to, but I can see why some people like to do it with their core groups and I imagine theses mutations makes replaying them more tolerable than in FFXIV where it will be exactly the same as last week and the week before that. if I had people that fit the whim of my schedule, mythic slaves lol, I’d probably try it… but that doesn’t exist unless you’re rude and powerful and so PUG mythic sounds like torture akin to FFXIV savage PUG from Duty Finder (therefore a no ‘not for me’ from me).
- [-] This is strongly a FFXIV perspective, but I think the group finder tool is a not very good / powerful. I imagine much of this is intended as you want players to ‘go to location’ but… I don’t like it lol. Especially awful the exit when solo entering content is using a hearthstone or walking back out. The system feels clunky and annoying coming from that perspective. While I’m not asking for it to be removed, cause clearly many players play it, there is no way I’m interested in content that has such a huge range of potential time cost (raids being like 2 - 4 hours)- so I would say I appreciate FFXIV has a goal duration and even a timer that prevents excessive banging you head against the wall. The raids look cool, to be fair, just that I can’t be not knowing what I’m doing in that time scale. If my wife wants to go out, I need to know how long (and 2 - 4 hours is way too much variance, with 2 being dangerously long and 4 being I wouldn’t join it even if I knew it was guaranteed). I am definitely more on the Duty Finder end of player in FFXIV, I greatly appreciate the DF.
- [+] Items in WoW have way more flavor, though this goes along with roleplay on classes I guess. From battle effects to goofy effects, it’s quite fun. Even silly toys with no gameplay purpose, I really appreciate this. I wish FFXIV did this, like at all lol.
- [-] Item treadmills require 20 minute youtube videos to understand. " It’s simple. Just take the hydraulic phase shift emulator, and attach it to the transdimensional photon particle emitter. Bam! New gear.". The system is also very RNG and I feel that FFXIV makes many attempts to ensure your success, if you do the activity (and win) you will get your goal, while WoW will take you for a ride with potentially no hope in sight lol.
- [+] Systems seem to be willing to be different, and accessible to all. Hard to pinpoint as a general concept, but say Garrisons are for all (unlike FFXIV housing, which is getting better but is not for all in all senses). Ideas tend to be comfortable being gamified and using interesting things. Like plants vs zombies in Pandoria. In FFXIV they added an island, which was incredibly pretty and you could upgrade, but they paired the gameplay with primarily an excel experience… I imagine in WoW it would have had way more gameplay elements.
- [-] If you do get a house in FFXIV, the customization is incredible (some glitches or addons needed…) and you’ve nothing comparable in WoW. Even garrison doesn’t really customize (though it does have more gameplay)
- [+] Events have many mechanics and feel really interesting, at least as a new player. In FFXIV it’s usually a talk to X people and complete the quest experience, with one item that then goes into the cash shop afterwards.
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[-] WoW, from watching from affar, and playing now, loves to remove content from the game. There is no general idea that it’ll come back. You can tell there is someone who loves FOMO. This is probably one of the reasons I stayed away, and does press in my mind if I really should be playing. FOMO to me is an emotionally abusive tactic. I never mean to say some cool item has to be given away meaninglessly later, but temporary FOMO items to me is a toxic behavior (strong wording intended…). It’s a game, not real life. I can imagine someone trying to lore or ‘realism’ a reason why, but then I will simply counter with all the one of a kind legendary items that are not. There is no reason to have FOMO except to emotionally manipulate them. It can work into giving people a sense of superiority / pride, but I think it’s a toxic emotion to feed (even I can feel this, I’m a legacy player on FFXIV for example… I do feel special, but I feel weak minded and petty if there was button to allow all players to have it and I refused just cause I wanted to be special). Don’t confuse that with wanting it to be handed out like candy though, it’s a game, make it fun (but don’t emotionally manipulate me). Reoccurring or delayed exclusivity is fine though, imo. I don’t appreciate the cash shop but even that would be ‘different’ in my mind than just purging (reoccurring should be expected though, not “maybe next week, maybe 15 years from now”). I’ve had it happen quite a few times already where I saw something interesting and then learned it’ll never be obtainable again, its a sucky feeling. I do not want to have something others cant have, I just want to enjoy getting the things I want to get.
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[+] The open world aspect with the flying is insanely cool and makes the world feel very tangible. In FFXIV they use instances (‘zones’), the zones look nice (the game looks nice) but this means everything is contained and connections between locations is all in your head. The game doesn’t help provide the sprawling landscape, you have to imagine the journey.
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[-] After playing FFXIV jobs, most magic effects in this game seems very old era PvP / raid game. Which is probably literally because of that being true. Essentially any job in FFXIV makes almost any job in WoW look weak (in sense of visual power). For example immolation in WoW is, imo, massively underwhelming and as a huge Illidan player (in wc3, thousands and thousands of hours in that game… lol), I feel it looks worse than WC3’s immolation somehow. In general, many, not all, effects just kind of whimper visually. Now it must be said in FFXIV if you don’t use the graphic setting to control effects on your screen, in big content, it will turn into a blinding light… But when you turn on full effects self, partial effects party, and low effects everyone else. God you feel awesome and look awesome (visually at least), and be able to easily read the battlefield. Mechanically I think WoW tends to do much better; however, FFXIV’s pvp is showing some ideas that mechanically might approach better WoW-like flow (just the normal content side of jobs is a bit less dynamic).
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[+] There are artsy moments in the story with custom cinematic, they are very well done and I greatly enjoy them. Voice acting is more consistently landing here (though there are many characters that do great in FFXIV too, but I find myself wincing less often for someone I might feel miscast). The story was very quick / broken into sections that allowed me to get to the content I wanted relatively quickly.
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[-] I dislike (my imo) the hyper reverence of certain characters and the concept that Thrall is like over 9000 and we’re a solid 1000. The story moments to me feel more silly due to that, and to me, trips over trying to handle this. Sure FFXIV does go very cliche Japanese RPG with you feeling like you can’t go up from here cause you’re practically fighting the god of the universe, maybe there is an issue with that lol, but I feel the story itself is told and absorbed more easily when the story revolves around what I’m doing. Watching Thrall take a small nap during the WoD intro after a few spells, I was like “pfft” and felt it was obvious the story was trying to make them present, powerful, but yet absolutely not lol. Metzen actually alluded to this story challenge in a recent interview. Sure keep them big powa, but personally I’m not interested as much in story where I’m someone else’s backdrop (especially when the story struggles to tell it that way, imo). I’ve not done all the MSQ(s) yet, but my generally feeling so far “could be better if they just made my characters /also/ one of the big deals”. I’m aware you can argue you are, but the presentation of it doesn’t really feel so much that way (especially if you’re coming at it from a FFXIV perspective).
I’m enjoying my time so far, but there are definitely some underlying fears. I can already tell that it’s true that FFXIV respects my time more and is not interested in holding me captive (I can play other games when I want), where I don’t feel so with WoW-- even such that it might say something like EA where loot boxes provides a sense of player satisfaction lol. I can also tell that the WoW devs love goofing off and just playing around, and it makes a lot of really fun mechanics, meanwhile FFXIV’s devs are exceptionally streamlined polished (sometimes way too ‘polished’, where your biggest “oh those people do have fun at the office” is in the game text or game story (but definitely not in the job expressions lol).
Since it’s my first post here… my childhood memories were done dirty with WC3 Reborn. Which adds to my leeriness of being here, some statements by TWW (like wanting players to play the way they want), actions (like adding delves and warbands), and potentially new leadership, has made me want to try, but am leery. I call out leadership as I doubt WoW’s problems were primarily due to the peons busting their butts on their passion, and more specifically for those “you think you do but you don’t” type people. Something I can call Naoki Yoshida out on, in compliment, as that guy is clearly (and self proclaimed) hardcore old school gamer (its massively his bias), yet he will still design content that he knows others will enjoy regardless of his own bias… which is an achievement.
Um, thank you for coming to my terrible TED talk. Both games have interesting pros, both have some substantial negatives. I believe both also look at each other for ideas. Rising tide floats all boats, hopefully, so just my 2 copper on some FFXIV / WoW. Please take each others best ideas