Light-Wielding "Void" Elves - A Concept

Moon Guard
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First, forgive me if this topic has been discussed on these forums before. I did some research and, coming across no satisfying answers, decided to write my own post. I apologize also for the length of this post. I decided not to include the short version of my character background but can post it later if it helps clarify where I’m coming from.

To put it simply, I want to play a non-Void-infused “Void” Elf (and no, that’s not “just a High Elf”). Several OOC conversations I’ve had have revolved around the Alleria/Turalyon relationship and the opposing nature of Void and Light. I’ve been told several times about how Void Elves IC would be pained, die, or somehow “explode” if they tried to wield the Light. The crux of the issue, it seems, is that, canonically-speaking, beings which are aligned or “infused” with one cosmic force are harmed through contact with its direct or near-opposite cosmic force. Thus, Alleria and Turalyon cannot touch and the Venthyr go mad from prolonged exposure to the Light. I could list other examples, as could you.

Presumably, then, my Void Elf ~has~ to be a Void-aligned Priest. However, based on my character’s backstory, I want my OC to have a more complex relationship with both the Light and the Void. They are fascinated by all Azeroth’s many religions and seek to understand each one on its own terms. Ideally, they struggle (keyword: struggle) to achieve a balance between the two forces within them through mental training and austere discipline.

How is that possible? Well, my Void Elf would not be one of Umbric’s original group. He’s a former priest of Silvermoon who, for his own reasons, sought out the Void Elves on Telogrus. Before anyone protests, we know this is a part of in-game lore! Individual non-Void-infused Quel’dorei and Sin’dorei are seen on Telogrus learning from the Ren’dorei there. According to my sources (see below), their goal is to reproduce the process that infused Umbric and the others with Void energies, thus creating more Ren’dorei. However, I doubt Alleria and Umbric (both exiles themselves) would turn away a former Sin’dorei seeking to understand both the Void and the Light on their own terms (Locus-Walker is another story). Until the in-game lore states otherwise, the Void Elves have not been able to replicate Void-infusion of the kind that produced them. Even if we assume that they have, I doubt seriously that Alleria and Umbric would “force” Void-infusion on the former Quel’dorei and Sin’dorei under their care.

TL;DR: for reasons important to the type of character I want to RP, my OC is a former Sin’dorei-turned-Ren’dorei who sought out the Ren’dorei but has not undergone Void-infusion of the kind that produced Void Elves like Umbric or Alleria. Therefore, with great discipline and perhaps a healthy dose of naivete, they seek to study both the Light and the Void in all their myriad institutional expressions. Given what we know about the Void Elves – their origin, their motivation, and their goals – I see no reason why that basic character concept cannot fit within “Void Elf Lore.” I mean, honestly, if an Undead priest like Alonsus Faol can canonically wield the Light, surely my little elf OC can too.

Sources:
WoWpedia article on Void Elves in BFA:
https:// wowpedia. fandom. com/ wiki/Void_elf#Battle_for_Azeroth

Interview with Steve Burke and Steve Danuser:
https:// www. polygon. com /2019/1/21/18188397/wow-world-of-warcraft-allied-races-story-nightborne-void-elves-steve-danuser-interview

Edit:
Here’s another source re: Priests wielding both Light and Void/Shadow:
https:// sagamer. co. za/2020/11/19/wow-shadowlands-interview-with-frank-kowalkowski-and-steve-danuser/

(Question: The cosmology comes up a lot at the moment, thanks to where we’re going and bigger awareness of what’s going on around Azeroth. Have you ever looked back at the classes and thought that maybe they need a redesign to change how they fit in the cosmology? Like how Priests are basically able to channel diametrically opposed forces of using both Light and Void depending on specialisation.)

Steve Danuser: So we certainly do think about a lot of things in relation to the cosmos and the greater powers at work in the universe but rather than seek out ways to go back and kind of retrofit the classes to fit into that, we think about instead like how we could we explore some of those story implications of things like you mentioned like the Priests being able to use these two forces that seem to be at odds what does that say about those two forces. Even though they would seem to be at odds all the time, are there actually ways that those two forces require one another in order to serve the greater balance and things like that so we certainly think about it.

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I don’t see why an individual priest can’t study Void.
Granted, the two magics cannot be used simultaneously without explosions/pain/whatever, at least to my knowledge. For all I know, there might need to be a “cooldown” between using Light and Void.
Also for what I know, there’s a point of no going back for some magics. You’ve used it enough times or got bathes in enough of it, you’re pretty much stuck with it. Stormrage twins for example: Malfurion looks like… that. And Illidan has demon features. Its also why Void Elves are fifty shades of purple and Lightforged are fifty shades of Light.

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I was going to make a deep dive into the lore on void elves, what they are, and the various examples and canon sources we have on the interaction between the Light and the Shadow; but you seem to have already done your homework. With that in mind, your concept sounds mostly believable. In fact, there already exists an in-game spec that encompasses priests who utilizes both Light and Shadow: Discipline. Though, as has been pointed out, the two forces do not seem to be channeled simultaneously. Rather, the priest can choose to use one and then the other. The only exception to this seems to be the Power of the Dark Side passive effect where Penance is empowered by shadow causing it to deal 50% more damage, but I kinda consider that one purely a game mechanic for obvious reasons.

The only thing that stands out to me is considering your character an actual void elf who did not undergo the transformation rather than just a high elf or blood elf priest looking to expand their knowledge and skills by learning from the void elves. To me, a void elf is one who has specifically undergone the change. You’ve probably discussed this same idea with others given your very-specific statement about what the character would be. Of course, you are free to play what you want to play. But if you’re taking Lore into consideration as much as you seem to be, this is the only point that at all gives me pause. Otherwise your idea sounds totally plausible. :slight_smile:

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I was going to make a deep dive into the lore on void elves, what they are, and the various examples and canon sources we have on the interaction between the Light and the Shadow; but you seem to have already done your homework.

Thank you! It wasn’t a lot of reading, comparatively, but I did try.

Though, as has been pointed out, the two forces do not seem to be channeled simultaneously. Rather, the priest can choose to use one and then the other.

My thoughts here always return to objects of “Netherlight,” like the Netherlight Crucible or the Netherlight Temple. How is it that the Netherlight Crucible could achieve “a delicate balance of Light and Shadow” without causing the Vindicaar to explode over Argus? Where in the Netherlight Temple does the influence of the Light end and the influence of the Void begin? Why is it that the Light can restore a darkened Naaru, thus transforming a Void creature into a Light creature, without causing the Naaru to explode and die?

My issue with all this is that Blizz itself seems to play fast-and-loose with the Light/Void lore. When it’s convenient, the two are two-sides-of-a-coin, capable of tandem use for great (if dangerous) benefit. On the other hand, when it’s convenient, the two are diametrically opposed, incapable of connecting with each other. Likely, in their pure cosmological forms, complete division is true; whereas, on the level of a reality where all cosmological forces hold some sway, a degree of “unity” is at least possible.

For my OC, their motivation revolves around convincing more people of the “two-sides-of-a-coin” narrative, at least as far as Light and Void manifest within the mortal realm. This is part of why they’re a priest; it’s part of their “higher calling.” Of course, people disagreeing with me IC is expected and encouraged. What I’m running into is people disagreeing with my concept OOC and refusing to engage me in RP either because I’m “twisting lore” or trying to be “too special.”

To me, a void elf is one who has specifically undergone the change.

This is absolutely valid, and I’m glad you brought it up, because a lot of those people read the “Void Elf” tag and make their lore assumptions. Part of my OC’s difficulty is struggling with their identify as an “elf-between-worlds.” They’re not Quel’dorei, but also no longer Sin’dorei. They left to join up with the Ren’dorei, but have avoided/refused Void-infusion. What are they, then? Where do they belong? That’s actually a big IC reason I wanted to play a “Void” Elf, rather than just a “Quel’dorei who studies the Void.” That tension and the conflict it creates in my character’s mind is important to their backstory. Again, IC, that is a convo which my OC is willing to have with other elves. OOC, getting people to respect that rather than immediately accusing me of being difficult has been … well, difficult.

In fact, there already exists an in-game spec that encompasses priests who utilizes both Light and Shadow: Discipline.

The Discipline spec was actually part of the inspiration for this character. I wanted a priest who really embodied that razor’s-edge mentality of balancing Light and Void. Tension is thus their defining characteristic from top-to-bottom: tension between Light/Void, between elvish identities, between family members and individuals. They even use they/them pronouns, as a further nonbinary aspect. Again, the hard bit is getting people to appreciate that profound internal tension as my character’s motivation.

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For me, and this is a big big “for me”, the Netherlight Crucible was more of a game mechanic, though perhaps less so than the Power of the Dark Side passive. It was a system introduced late in Legion as a way to help balance out game-system imbalance/bloat more than anything and as a way to add more “progression” and “stuff to do” for those seeking content. I can’t remember perfectly, but I think you could choose both Light and Shadow attributes for the same items, which would obviously be a little sketchy when thinking from a lore perspective.

Netherlight Temple always did seem to have the two forces separated. One side was Light focused while the other was Shadow focused. The center seemed not to carry any specific focus and could have acted as a safety buffer.

However, at the end of the day, you’re right in observing that things aren’t always perfectly consistent. Personally I try to look at all the sources I can, weigh them on a scale of what seems most sensible and story-relevant from the perspective of our most recent understandings and clarifications, and go with what stands out as most consistent as a result of that. I mean, even in the written, out-of-game literature, there still exists some material that makes me tilt my head to the side. I recall when reading Shadows Rising that there was a scene in which a lightforged draenei traveled through a void rift with a void elf. For all it appeared, the reaction should have been the same as Turalyon’s reaction to Alleria’s rift in A Thousand Years of War. Instead the lightforged was simply creeped out, uncomfortable, and disgusted. Looking deeper, does that suggest that negative effects can be resisted if one force is concentrated enough so that it overwhelms the other? Maybe. Considering that possibility surely helps certain things make a little more sense, but we’re admittedly moving into the realm of headcanon by considering it.

The labels of quel’dorei and sin’dorei feel as though they carry with them a quality of alignment and allegiance more so than biology. I see what you mean though. Perhaps one option to show that your character doesn’t really fit into one of the predefined labels is to use “Thalassian” or “Thalassian Elf” as their race. As a real nerd for elven lore and Light/Shadow stuff in particular, I don’t find your concept hard to believe from either an IC or OOC standpoint. It would create quite the interesting discussion for sure, but it doesn’t come across as you being difficult or lore-breaking. Of course, this all assumes that ren’dorei are defined as I have chosen to define them and that they aren’t more of an alignment/allegiance label like quel’dorei and sin’dorei. I guess if you go with the void elf who isn’t infused option, you’d just have to deal with the lack of infusion bit when presenting your character to others in game. I don’t have a real good answer on how to do that.

I mean to me this sounds like the makings of an incredibly deep and interesting character. I say keep with it and don’t give up the concept. Despite the questions that remain and your purpose for creating this thread, you seem well on your way to figuring out some way to make it happen.

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For me, and this is a big big “for me”, the Netherlight Crucible was more of a game mechanic, though perhaps less so than the Power of the Dark Side passive.

The thing for me is (and I’m not trying to be combative or accusative, just pointing out my experience), the “that’s a game mechanic” v.s. “that’s lore” debate is, as you say, highly subjective. I can see why arguing for any class passive effect IC would be unnecessary, but the Netherlight Crucible is supported by in-game lore and events. How it works is never really fleshed out, but that seems like an area for exploration to me, rather than an indication that it shouldn’t be considered “lore.” And as for the Temple, if we admit for a buffer, where does the buffer zone then begin and end? If the buffer contacts both Light and Void simultaneously, why does it not explode or collapse? These are fruitful questions that get shut-down by far-reaching statements like “Void and Light can’t mingle in one zone or one being.”

I guess if you go with the void elf who isn’t infused option, you’d just have to deal with the lack on infusion bit when presenting your character to others in game. I don’t have a real good answer on how to do that.

Short of having everyone read a short biography before interacting with me, I don’t either. :stuck_out_tongue: It’s why I’m trying to find a good guild. That said, so far all the guilds I’ve tried have outright turned me down or tried to talk me into changing my character.

I mean to me this sounds like the makings of an incredibly deep and interesting character. I say keep with it and don’t give up the concept.

I appreciate that very much, and also all your comments. I’m new to WoW RP (have done D&D and Guild Wars RP before), and am trying not to be discouraged by my experience thus far. If you have any leads on good guilds for the type of religious scholar/disc. priest I’m trying to play, I’d appreciate that too!

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Oh absolutely. Ultimately though, the Netherlight Crucible is, as you said, not fully explained or fleshed out and breaks with a lot of the other things we’ve been shown about Light and Shadow that have been defined much more clearly. So it kinda comes back to my statements about even with what we have, some things remain not entirely consistent as well as my personal method of choosing to go with what does seem more clear, prevalent, and consistent. If we headcanon the Netherlight Crucible though, perhaps we can find ways to rationalize it. The Light ahd Shadow shards on either side of it are kept apart. Perhaps the relics we slot in never come into direct contact with one another despite their proximity and infusions? Perhaps their effects activate one-at-a-time so that overlap of Light and Shadow does not occur? Perhaps the delicacy of what it accomplishes is why such a strange mechanism is needed in the first place? I don’t know. I enjoy trying to tie pieces of lore and the story together by working with the grey areas we’re given, but it does admittedly become difficult at certain points.

I always understood it as the forces of Light and Shadow cannot come into direct contact themselves without consequences. The buffer itself does not become a battleground simply for the fact that Light and Shadow exist on its opposite borders. As I recall, the center of the temple was rather large, so containment of whatever was within each opposite wing would have to fail pretty catastrophically for either force to make it far enough outside of its alcove to come into contact with the other. At least, it makes sense to me to explain it that way.

Of course! If you’re new to WoW RP, you’re doing a great job diving in and digesting the material as you decide how to create a character that can interact with it. As for guilds, I can’t say I know any that would suit your character perfectly from a perspective of being focused on the Light and Shadow along with their religious and institutional aspects from a scholarly/academic point of view. However, for what it’s worth, my guild is recruiting. :slight_smile: We have a recruitment thread here on the forums that you may have seen already. Though our focus is the unity of all Alliance elves, a character like yours wouldn’t be out of place provided that they agreed with the guild’s mission and wanted to be there. If you’re interested, let me know. We can talk more details over Discord DMs if you’d like.

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Yo. I’m a High Elf Role-player myself, but I very firmly believe that there has been a second generation of Void Elves. That very article that you linked provides a great point about it. Danuser says:

“They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not … “recruiting” , necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.”

Like he says, they start out small, but other Elves have come to them and undergone a similar process, adding to their numbers. This also matches the new addition to the Void Elf customization options when Shadowlands began. Having a more classic Thalassian Elf appearance. The first generation of Void Elves were twisted, half-voidwalker things that had been created against their will. The newer generations of Void Elves are much more refined, wielding all the same powers as the original void elves without the obvious mutations.

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So it kinda comes back to my statements about even with what we have, some things remain not entirely consistent as well as my personal method of choosing to go with what does seem more clear, prevalent, and consistent.

I think that’s perfectly understandable, and a fine way of approaching the lore. Different RP’ers are going to have different methodologies for parsing out the sprawling mess that is Warcraft lore. The difficulty, I think, is when those methodologies come into conflict. For example, when one RP’er insists that a given event or object cannot have existed/occurred for anyone because their methodology does not allow for it. IC that’s fine; those characters likely cannot RP together. It happens. OOC, when people openly discourage or oppose variant approaches regardless of the arguments provided, that becomes a problem. A problem I’ve encountered often, as it happens.

If you’re interested, let me know. We can talk more details over Discord DMs if you’d like.

I would be interested. I had read that thread a few days ago in my research, but didn’t put you together with them till you pointed it out. Granted it might not be a good fit, and that’d be okay. Still, I’d be open to discussing the matter further.

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Yo. I’m a High Elf Role-player myself, but I very firmly believe that there has been a second generation of Void Elves.

That’s awesome, and I’m sorry if it seemed like I was precluding that option. I tried to frame my argument in light of both possibilities. If there is not a second generation, then my OC is not a problem whatsoever. However, if we assume as you (probably correctly) assume that some elves have undergone Void-infusion after-the-fact, then the onus is on me to explain why my OC has not undergone Void-infusion. That is explained further in their backstory, with all the various tensions that contains. My purpose here was to put forth an explanation for how such an OC would be possible in the first place. Quoting myself:

I doubt Alleria and Umbric (both exiles themselves) would turn away a former Sin’dorei seeking to understand both the Void and the Light on their own terms.

I simply cannot believe that Alleria and Umbric, after what they’ve gone through, would force anyone to embrace the Void to the point of Void-infusion as a prerequisite for inclusion in their ranks. That seems to go against the core of their identities as “racial” leaders. On the contrary, the Sin’dorei leadership has made it abundantly clear that Void study is taboo, if not outright forbidden, due to the renewed Sunwell and the increasing prevalence of the Light as a guiding force for Blood Elf society.

There is a fruitful discussion here about what constitutes a “true” Void Elf, as opposed to a “Void-sympathetic” elf. My attempt to dwell in and highlight that tension is itself an attempt to capture my OC’s internal tension about leaving Silvermoon for Telogrus, abandoning their biological family and friends for a “found-family,” etc. There is fruitful discussion and room for character development here that goes beyond “Void Elves are purple and High Elves aren’t.” If that means I can’t RP with some groups, that’s fine. However, to the degree that I’ve found people insisting that I have to be a born-and-raised High Elf to wield the Light, I felt the need to write this post.

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I mean, no, I don’t think the Alliance would turn them away. But Void Elves as led by Alleria and Umbric are the ones that need guidance and mastery over the void energy that dwells within them all. Resisting the dark whispers and yoking their power towards good. Your character concept would probably fit in better amongst the Silver Covenant, if you’re a non-void infused Thalassian Elf.

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Perhaps, except for the fact that my OC is former Sin’dorei, not Quel’dorei. Given the attitude of the Silver Covenant toward the Blood Elves, I actually think my OC would get along better with the Ren’dorei. This is sort-of the response I keep getting: Void Elves are by nature infused with Void, full-stop. You either RP a Quel’dorei with an interest in the Void, or you RP a Void Elf Shadow Priest.

I would respond that I’m trying to create a more compelling character from my perspective. Again, the character is driven by multiple layers of personal internal tension, symbolized by their interest in conflating the binary Light/Void divide. I don’t think that means they “fit in better” with any of the elf groups; that’s kind of my point. The character purposefully leaves Silvermoon to ally themselves with the Ren’dorei. They don’t truly “fit in” anywhere anymore.

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I would argue that the distinction between High Elves and Blood Elves is MUCH less severe than the distinction between Void Elves and Blood Elves. Biologically, Quel’dorei and Sin’dorei are identical races now. And that’s not an over-exaggeration. All Thalassians are reached by the rays of the Sunwell no matter where on Azeroth or Draenor or elsewhere they may go, as confirmed at Blizzcon. They are all saturated by the same energies of the Sunwell and the only differences now are cultural.

Also, there is the slight advantage that the Silver Covenant is better organized than the Ren’dorei forces, who have yet to establish any sort of formal military, training structure, hierarchy, or establish territories beyond Telogrus Rift. The Covenant is a dedicated army of Thalassians. The Ren’dorei are fantastic, don’t get me wrong. If you want your OC to go hang out with them, you have my full support. But if you’re not overly-infused with Void, even if they were a Blood Elven Shadow Priest or Shadowmage of some sort, then your character wouldn’t meet the Void Elven distinction. You’re Quel or Sin.

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I appreciate your input, but as I’ve indicated already, I respectfully disagree with your interpretation here, primarily because I disagree that an OC has to have tentacles growing out of their head in order to consider themselves a Void Elf. I would, however, appreciate a citation for your points on the Sunwell, for no other reason than to add it to my own list of sources.

I will restate that, as I envision them, the OC in question is neither fully Void, nor do they identify with either the High or Blood Elves. They are neither a “Holy” priest nor a “Shadow” priest. If anything, IC, they’re an independent scholar of religions who, through will and discipline, seeks to study and to wield both Light and Void. They elect to associate with the Ren’dorei, and if pressed, consider themselves a Void Elf after a fashion. But to your point, they are not a “true Void Elf.” To my point, just because they aren’t purple, that doesn’t necessarily make them “Quel or Sin.” As the other commenter put it, they are “Thalassian” biologically; as I’m putting it, they are Void-Elf-adjacent ideologically. Whatever IC disagreement that engenders between OCs is fine, but I’m wearied of defending OOC what is ultimately an IC identification.

That said, I decided today to shelve this OC for now and start fresh with a new concept. What was supposed to have been fun has since turned into far too much work. I suppose that’s the #thread, then.

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At the risk of going slightly off topic, this concept of mixing of Void and Light has fascinated me for quite a while. Maybe some others will find it interesting too. To refresh our memories, this is what wowpedia has to say about it (paraphrased from Chronicle):

The Light existed as a boundless sea of living energy, swelling across all of existence, unfettered by time and space. Yet as the ever-shifting sea expanded, pockets of cold nothingness appeared. From these, the Void was born. The Void quickly grew and began to move against the Light. Eventually, the mounting tension between the two forces ignited a series of explosions that ruptured the very fabric of creation, giving birth to the physical universe.

How I interpret this is that Light and Void can coalesce, but only up to a certain point at which they’re too unstable to continue (hence explosions).

A second point of interest is/was a spell school found in gameplay called Twilight (wowpedia.fandom(dot)com/wiki/Twilight_(spell_school)). This school has only been seen twice: once from Twilight Fanatics in Darkshore using Twilight’s Wrath (wowhead(dot)com/spell=75019/twilights-wrath), but also by discipline priests in the old PvP talent Premonition (wowhead(dot)com/spell=209780/premonition).

Now, I’m not taking either of these to be rock solid evidence, but I will admit that this idea is something I’ve really wanted to integrate into my own discipline priest. ICly, I could see it as being the “pinnacle” of a disc priest’s long and arduous study; to be able to wield twilight magic without cataclysmic consequences.

Hoping this kind of ties in with the original topic of paradoxical concepts, but anyway food for thought, I guess!

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I hate to burst your bubble, but yeah, it is just a High Elf who happens to study the Void. You’re not a Void Elf if you’re… not a Void Elf.

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This seems like a low effort reply from someone who didn’t read the entire post, or maybe is just disregarding the OP’s idea without any explanation. But then, I’m just a rando from the internet, what do I know? :man_shrugging:

I think what OP is saying (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that he wants to play a cultural void elf, rather than one who is a velf by virtue of having been physically changed by the void and has sprouted tentacles. This is really no different than the Blood elves - physically identical (at least, once) to high elves but culturally different.

In any case, OP said this was his concept, isn’t making any assertions, and is merely providing supporting evidence for his idea. At the end of the day, he gets to play whatever type of character he chooses.

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I think what OP is saying (please correct me if I’m wrong) is that he wants to play a cultural void elf, rather than one who is a velf by virtue of having been physically changed by the void and has sprouted tentacles.

Thank you. Essentially, yes, that was the idea. I grant freely that there is no example, in-game or otherwise, of a “cultural void elf.” That is the whole reason I made this thread: to lay down, as I see it, the support for why I think such a character could exist within the established lore. The truly overwhelming response has been to overlook the nuance I was attempting to point out in favor of the “no-purple-no-velf” line.

That said, in my opinion, no one has yet to refute my basic claim that a former Blood Elf could leave Silvermoon, find some comradery among the Ren’dorei, and thereby consider themselves a Void Elf in all but “corruption.” Nor do I see anything in Alleria and Umbric’s characterizations that would indicate they would turn such an elf away. If anything they would likely welcome them as a student of the Void.

Again, I grant that none of this makes the OC a corrupted Void Elf. However, IC, there is nothing to say that they could not therefore consider themselves a cultural Void Elf, anymore than a Quel’dorei could make the cultural leap to the Sin’dorei, or vice-versa. I am -not- attempting to rewrite established lore. I am trying to defend my OC’s view of their identity from within the lore itself. Unfortunately, it has become increasingly evident that the Thalassian Gatekeepers of Moon Guard won’t let me in without tentacles.

I’d also like to point this out from another recent thread. As I said above, what is acceptable to a given RP’er depends largely on their methodology for approaching lore, as well as their tastes and the scenario in question. In my opinion, the VElf lore is so comparatively new and wide-open as to allow for many fresh possibilities. For others, clearly, the lore is not so freely riffed on.

Maybe I’d have better luck if I tried to RP a trogg.

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Well, if this is the case it sounds like they’re missing out on gaining someone with creative and well thought out ideas.

I think you should go for it!