Level Squish is Wrong!

The main supporting arguments I’ve heard for a level squish are as follows:
“120 is too many levels. It might drive away new players.”
“We don’t get something with every level like we used to.”

Ok… well, here’s my perspective. First I’ll address the issue of lack of reward.
I feel like the “lack of reward” argument comes from how we used to get and spend skill points every level. Honestly, I never liked getting skill points and having to carefully consider where to spend them. I’m generally not a fan of skill point systems in video games because it’s much more difficult for me as a player to know what those points actually do than it is in table-top RPG.

To me, leveling up in a video game is its own reward that comes with predetermined stat increases. I don’t want or need points to spend. I don’t want to manually tune my character with the risk of making costly mistakes. In Classic I sat on skill points for multiple levels until I was sure I knew how to spend them. They weren’t a reward to me, they were a burden.

So, that being said I’ll move on to “120 levels is too many.”
No, really it isn’t. The number of levels isn’t the problem people have with leveling anyway, it’s the time it takes to reach max level on a new alt. Even giving us a 20 level head start on allied races only cuts roughly 1 hour or less off the time to level to max.

I’ve leveled several alts in pursuit of finding the class that’s right for me in current endgame content. If my goal is to play endgame content I just want to get my alt there as quickly as possible and I don’t want to have to pay the equivalent of 4 months subscription to do that.

On the other hand, if my goal is to experience past content while leveling… well, it’s very hard to do that either. Even after world scaling, which did improve this situation somewhat, we still outlevel content and feel pressured to move on instead of completing and enjoying the entire story of any expansion.

No… the number of levels isn’t the problem. The problem is paid level boosts and the disjointed nature of the current optimum leveling path.
The fix for these problems isn’t a level squish, all a level squish does is arbitrarily reduce a number and make long-time players feel like their characters have been nerfed, which is exactly what the stat squishes have done. Nobody wants to feel like their progress in a game has been nerfed for totally arbitrary reasons. It doesn’t matter if 60 is the new “Max”, it still feels bad.

The fix for alt leveling times is to allow players with at least 1 max level character on a server to start new alts at the starting level of current content for free. Seriously, 2 days /played is not worth the equivalent of 4 months subscription.
I’m sure this is a totally automated process these days anyway, it should be included with our subscription.

The fix for the disjointed leveling experience is to change the bounds of world scaling for all zones. Once a character hits level 20 let them go anywhere (maybe even including current content) and level up through whatever content they choose.
I know the idea of putting a minimum level on zones was supposed to make us feel like certain parts of the world were too dangerous until we reached high enough level, but in practice it’s simply an arbitrary limitation that prevents me from experiencing content I haven’t gotten to before because by the time I’m leveled enough to go to those places it’s time for me to move on to the next leveling bracket.

120 is a number. Cutting that number in half doesn’t address the underlying problems. It’s just a cosmetic nerf and it feels horrible, as though half the levels I’ve earned on 7 alts are arbitrarily being taken away. Yes, I understand that functionally no actual progress would be taken away but that doesn’t change how it feels to me.

One more thing, scaling all content would fix a major problem with WoW; the near total abandonment of past expansions. With the existence of time manipulation and the Bronze Dragonflight time travel is basically part of the fabric of the game. Heck, as it is allied races get sent back in time to level 20 content, way before they were recruited.
My headcanon for this is basically that all player characters are unbound in time. We don’t get to see Azeroth as it currently is everywhere. When we travel we move through both space and time. Where we arrive is when we were needed most. That’s how I’ve made sense of it anyway.

5 Likes

Get rid of levels all together and just show total xp earned

I prefer level squish, because just like your post, it’s too long, did not read.

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Some of just PREFER to not be level 150/160/170.

Just LOOKS weird and feel janky. I support a level squish and/or a new progression idea.

Take Albion Online and its “Fame” - the fame is an indicator to how much content has been played. This could work in a different form in WoW but all I am hearing opposing the squish is “muh levels”. People are so hung up on their levels its crazy to behold.

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The level squish isn’t going to fix the game. All the level squish does is make it easier for the Devs to rework the game. If you want the game to change for the better then you should support the level squish. The level squish takes away x amount of levels meaning that’s less levels for blizz to look at as they rework the game. I was watching Asmongolds stream and a lot of people seem to think the level squish won’t help. It’s not physiological well it kind of is but i believe its more for the Devs. If they rolled levels back to say 80 they could bring back old talent trees. I’m not saying that is what will happen but everyone is looking at this from a gaming perspective and not taking into account that it could be more from a design perspective.

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I am ready for the level squish. Did you think that perhaps Blizzard got rid of the talent tree system because it would get out of hand with all the levels? If we’re getting a new talent point to spend every other level then we’d end up being 2 specs in one class.

Maybe Blizzard can use this time to restart the talent tree system and test how they can keep it for several expansions and not just a couple. (Ended at wotlk)

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50 hours is not a lot compared to other mmos on the market for a capped characters. I don’t know why people keep saying that wow leveling is too long. The problem is the quality not the quantity.

It’s actually worth if you compare time spent. 50 hours of gameplay for 60$ skip is a pretty fair deal (about a 1$ an hour), I’m one of the people that would prefer they either remove it or make it like 200$+.

There’s nothing taked away from squish as we don’t know yet if it would happen and how it would happen. And even if it takes away some levels or make it shorter, if it makes the leveling better and more fun for new and old players why not?

That’s your personal opinion, but there are players who like to experiment with different builds which a point based system permits. That’s also why a good game with a point based system has reasonable options (sadly, many don’t) to respec and start over in case you did make some bad decisions or want to try something new.

Customization is where you get the largest amount of replay factor in any video game.

And what about the free level boosts that come with each expansion? Are you going to try and say we should remove them as well? Paid Level boosts are not really part of the core issue. They let you skip to current content and your idea would let you skip to current content just as quickly.

With that change would come the cost of feeling like you’re making zero progression. When every zone scales with you its impossible, outside of dungeons and raids, to feel like you’ve become any stronger.

Many single player RPGs that rely on level scaling are not well liked, because it breaks immersion to return to the starter zone at level 80 and see the piddling goblins bandits decked out in Neo-Azerite Armor and wielding God Slaying weapons.

That’s really the core issue.

You could have 999 levels, but if the levelling process is enjoyable, who cares?

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I’m not against a level squish, but I hope that it comes with a reworking of the low level gameplay and character progression.

In the past, their solution to “we have lots of levels now” seems to have been “lets nerf the content”. I’d like to see that go away, even if it means a squish.

This. 100% this.

1 Like

The level squish makes it easier for them to improve the quality

They could do that w/o knocking everyone back to a predetermined level.

Just revamp the tree and problem solved.

there is to many levels to make the talent trees feel like they want them to, to many people want leveling up to feel rewarding again so it would get to the point where there is full fire and frost mages running around

I shut off my XP on my Priest at level 100 so I could do all of WoD

I’m still debating this choice. I could keep dinging and steamroll the content. But there is a “twink” aspect of it too, where, when I get a reward from a quest, I want it to feel like an upgrade. And I want to die to a situation I handled poorly.

So again, I shut off XP (for now)

I am not mathematician, but I am sure they could design a tree that could spread out across 120 or 130 levels.

Honestly I don’t care one way or another, my main concern is Blizzard’s knack for squishing something and breaking everything in the process.

But does it really? Or is that just what they want us to believe? Seriously.

When you COMPRESS things, something is always lost in the process.

Fewer levels means the power boosts will have to be bigger and more visible.

Also, fewer levels means you have to pack more into each and every level, sometimes ending up with huge power spikes.

That’s one reason that pencil and paper rpgs tend to try and have abilities upgrade slowly over time, to avoid power spikes as much as possible.

Fewer levels does not automatically mean you will have better quality. If anything, you have to work harder to create a smooth levelling process in terms of the power curve.

More levels makes it easier to have a smooth levelling process. Because you can be more granual. Instead of +5 per level, you can do +2 per level and there are fewer spikes as a result.

Now I’m not against a level squish, provided that it is the tip of the iceberg and they have more planned, like a much needed overhaul to content and classes. But if they think that simply streamlining the number of levels will be a panacea to solve all problems, they’re sadly mistaken.

(I Left mid cata came back few months ago, havent bought BFA)

So, when I came back and saw the new talent tree, I was like…ehhhh…

I thought, instinctively, that they could AT LEAST give you a % upgrade on the previous tier talent untill you hit the next tier. Like, Tier 1 you get “this talent” then there is 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 etc till the next talent, this would make it feel like you got “something” in between these huge gaps.

I agree. The talent tree is way to sparse and should span the entire level spectrum.

I agree but again i think its more from a design perspective then anything else. you have to understand how hard it is changing a game when you have 120 levels to worry about when making a change. It wouldn’t really change anything except the level that players are they don’t have to change stats or abilities or power at all they would have to set the max level to a different number. The only thing that would really need to change would be how one levels up and T&E made a perfect video explaining on how to change the leveling process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwnntGp3WXU

I’ll bite. SO if not that, then why would Blizz be squishing?