This sort of post is why we need some sort of mega upvote button.
Yeah no, the twink has no place in regular group content because no one should have to “suck it up and deal” or “just leave” and eat a 30 minute penalty because one clown wants to be a one man army because he’s not good enough to clear content on his own without a crutch. One guy should not be allowed to reduce GROUP CONTENT to a one man show. If you want to group with twinks still, nothing would be stopping you from grouping with them and joining stuff together once they’re out of the regular group pool. But you people seem absolutely bent on screwing over other people by refusing to change anything even though BOTH sides can have what they want right now. You can group with your twinks by putting out an ad and joining them in the twink pool, or ticking a box to group with them. And folks like me and others don’t have to see them ever.
I know it’s difficult for you people to grasp, but there are those of us who actually like to play our toons and participate in content we signed up for instead of whining about it being a “chore”. All of this goes away by separating the twinks out into their own pool and giving people the choice of whether they want to still group with them or not. If you people really are the majority as you claim then you won’t notice a difference by grouping with twinks or ticking a box to join them and people like me will eat higher queue times letting you say “we told you so”. So what are you people so afraid of?
First off, show us where this is happening with actual evidence because “trust me bro” is not a source.
Second, the only reason a lvl 11 can one shot anything is because they’re abusing busted scaling mechanics to accomplish things that the past 20 years of the game has never intended for them to do. Not to mention they prevent level 70s from being able to twink for similar scaling reasons. So precedent already says the epidemic of 1 shotting twinks is not supposed to be a thing.
Third, there is supposed to be a vast difference between a level 11 and a max level toon. A level 11 should never be able to hold a candle to what a fully geared max level can do in a game like this. Should they be completely useless, no that’s never been what I’m saying. What I am saying however is you should NEVER see a level 11 or similar registering in the millions of DPS well beyond anything a max level toon is capable of even with mythic gear. At best they should be the equivalent of a max level toon in quest greens for that level. They’re still contributing but the whole twinks one shotting goes away. I realize people like the idea of being a 1 man army, but that was never supposed to happen and shouldn’t be happening now.
As an expansion goes on I expect max level toons to get stronger and stronger as they climb the gear ladder. It’s what’s happened for the last 20 years afterall. Let’s also keep in mind we’re talking about 5 man content here. As the expansion progressed and we got towards the end of it, people were able to knock over things in a few hits they used to struggle against, with the odd exception here or there. IF a person has gotten to the point they can knock those things down legitimately through their own hard work, then I see no issue with this. Problem is certain ones aren’t doing it through their own work but taking advantage of screwed up mechanics. I also don’t see that many people who are fully mythic infinite geared in TW or 5 man stuff either because it serves no purpose for them. Even with mythic geared people in groups I’ve been in, I can count on a single hand how many of them were able to one shot anything and still have fingers left over. Yet with twinks I know the moment I see one I may as well put my toon on follow and go AFK because I’m not getting to play.
Also your line I highlighted in bold demonstrates the problem perfectly. By your admission of the twinks being in BiS gear and “there is no powercreep for them”, you’re admitting they have the equivalent of end of expansion gear final season gear when we’re not even at the end of the expac yet. So by your logic, the playing field needs to be leveled and the max level toons need to be given better gear. Because if there is “no powercreep for them” this means as long as things stay as they are now with scaling, twinks will be one shotting stuff and preventing others from playing from now until the end of the game, be it this expac, or expacs 10 years from now. So we’re right back to the twink being the problem so what exactly were you trying to prove?
Now we can fix the scaling as they need to do and screw over the ability of the twinks to have their fun. OR we could just separate them out of the main group pool and allow them and like minded people their own group pooling to still have fun, and folks like myself and others who want to actually play our toons can do so again. Both sides win and get to have their fun without one coming at the expense of another. I fail to see what’s unreasonable about this aside from a few folks being mad they have to take an extra step or two to get a free ride on the back of the twink.
No one is abusing scaling mechanics. The game’s design is the game’s design.
By that logic, people who play their class optimally are abusing the game design because they’re pushing their toon to a level others can’t?
A perfect example is, just because you’re sitting in a Ferrari doesn’t make you a good driver.
Scaling, twinking and the ability to turn off experience all contribute to the problem. Why would a player do this some might ask? IME, a very small (I mean tiny) percentage of folks will do this to feel as overpowered as possible by “one-shoting” mobs for their enjoyment.
The majority do it because of:
Gold and RL $ sellers.
Multi-boxers leveling another toon as fast as possible.
Per the TOS, “You are responsible for how you and your account are represented in the game world. Cheating in any fashion will result in immediate action. Using third-party programs to automate any facet of the game, exploiting bugs, or
Engaging in any activity that grants an unfair advantage is considered cheating.
This last line ^^^ is clear.
Now why do grouped players care? They are getting through the dungeon faster, right? Faster finish, faster leveling, faster quest competitions? It’s a win-win-win! Correct?
No, it’s not. There are a few major issues.
But first some FYI’s.
- At level 80 to get credit for the weekly timewalking quest you must damage the final boss of the dungeon.
- At level 80 to get credit towards your vault you must kill the required number of bosses in each dungeon. Dungeons have either 3 or 4 mandatory bosses you must kill and sometimes there are bonus bosses that play no part on weekly quests or the vault.
Now the issues:
A. Room lockouts. The tank twink abuses their “god-mod” status and runs straight to the boss. The result: Grouped players are locked out of the boss fight (they can’t keep up. Especially when all the skipped mobs are aggroing on them). Room lock-out prevents you from damaging the bosses. See 1 & 2 above.
B. Skipping bosses. Twinks are only concerned with the final boss because completing the dungeon rewards the most experience (Remember tank twinks have their experience turned off) for the OTHER player(s) they are leveling. Then they can instantly queue (because tank/mistweaver heal). Rinse repeat. See 1 and 2 above.
C. Playing the game and getting to play your character. This might seem like a stretch for some reading but players (myself included) enjoy playing the character even if the content is timewalking or heroic dungeon level. (sometimes called, chore content or free content).
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Add-ons like DBM creates an unfair advantage in raids and mythic+. Do they cause ban?
Just curious – does it continue when you get a level 12 or stop? I’ve not seen this tbh.
You are the npc that sometimes presses buttons and loots.
It doesn’t matter in TW because that mode exists to get results and not to enjoy it.
I’m not sure of the scaling percentages. But IME, it seems the “god-mod” levels are 10-14 and 70-74. I’m basing this off my own experiences looking at the details damage meters and players in those level ranges are “one-shotting” mobs doing absurd amounts of damage.
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70-74 is where you get alts levelling in late DF gear who even at 74 have more relative power than lvl 80’s in 639 gear.
Apples vs Oranges IMO.
DBM has been around forever and is part of the thought process by designers when raids are made. The twink/scaling for $/Gold issue is a new problem that began this expansion. Before TWW, I “think” you had to be level 35 to enter a timewalking dungeon.
Exactly what “advantage” does DBM and like add-ons create?
“Scaling, twinking and the ability to turn off experience are all systems implemented and supported by Blizzard and an official part of the game”
There, fixed it for you.
/golfclap
Correct it’s part of the game. No debate.
However, abuse (gaining an unfair advantage) of these “in the game” systems result in:
Engaging in any activity that grants an unfair advantage is considered cheating.
Social media has been on fire with “twinks” being banned recently upwards of a couple thousand. Just speculation and I’m repeating what I’m seeing. There is no way to be sure how many were banned.
But you do you with your level 10 twink priest.
Don’t come back in a month posting about how you didn’t know.
Twinks have been around forever if you’ve been around. Maybe as long or longer than DBM. I guess you never played 19 bracket in TBC.
This conversation is about twinks not selling runs etc.
Hm. Let me give you a few examples:
“Move your feet”
“Run away”
“Interrupt”
“Defensive”
DBM tells you when mechanics are happening.
My turn….
How is twinking in time walking dungeons an unfair advantage?
This week the number of lvl 11 twinks seems to have dropped significantly - I think I’ve only run into 2 of them. The only problem I had was that one of them was not very good - just ran to first boss while never hitting anything. When the twink started on the boss, he lost 90% of his HP in about 3 seconds, and when I healed him, about 60 mobs ran over to me and death touched me. Then the tank died, and all three DPS. We all spawned back in, and the tank did the exact same thing - it was worth the deserter debuff to leave that mess behind, and /ignore that particular twink.
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100% agree
By your logic.
If guess when all the gamers come together and create a mythic guild. They’ll get ban because it’s “creating an unfair advantage.” Is that cheating or just good people being good?
I guess everyone who can’t full clear a mythic raid should complain that others are “creating an unfair advantage” because they’re playing their class as intended.
Twinks are people playing the game as it was intended by blizzard. If twinks were that bad, blizzard would not implement the ability to turn off experience.
It’s because time walking is coming to an end.