Let's talk pvp for real

I’ve seen alot of posts complaining about the current state of pvp, and I hoped to start a reasonable discussion. (probably a bad idea lol)

I understand why people are upset with the premade AV meta. Horde have 30 minute queues, and alliance have to premade or lose 95% of their games. If you want to rank you grind AV for 16 hours a day. It sucks we all agree.

In phase 2 we saw alliance complain, rightfully so, about the state of world pvp. Same way horde are justified in complaining about current of BG queues.

These are both symptoms of the same problem, the horde have a massive numbers advantage in pvp. I came to the conclusion that there are roughly 400 horde queued for AV for every 1 alliance.

For whatever reason, whether it’s racials, people following friends, or just wanting to play with like minded people, almost the entire pvp community chose the same faction. Idk if this is fixable I’ve seen people blaming blizz for the state of pvp but it’s a player made issue. Any solution needs to fix both BG’s and world pvp. Short of faction changes or mass rerolling I don’t see how that’s possible.

You can’t break premades in AV. It’ll just shift the alliance pvp meta to premade WSG. It will most likely double horde queue times for AV. It would just be a bandaid without fixing the real issue.

Unfortunately I see no way to actually fix pvp in classic. We’re stuck with what he have at this point. I wish there was a fix, but it is what it is.

TL:DR pvp issues are player made, blizz can’t fix it. It sucks but we just have to deal with it.

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I don’t really PvP that much even though I’m on a PvP server. I rolled this server to have an extra challenge while leveling and because lore says that the horde and alliance hate each other, so it makes sense to me.
I choose horde because I’m a human IRL and didn’t want to be one in game when I have other options.

EDIT: I agree that most of the issues are caused by players, and anything Blizzard does to “fix” the issue will only cause different issues

Current fix for queues is for hordies complaining to Reroll. Or make their own premades. I have had zero issues running into premades or eatting my queues. I went horde because a good real life friend went horde. Good thing I enjoy for queues is that I can go farm Ore or some material to pass time in between. My watch has ended ((AV rep grind.)) So I have not been in AV this week at all. Has it gotten worse?

Bring back the timer for AV, set it at 15 min. There. Horde cant waste everyone’s time on a turtle, alliance will que more and faster giving the horde faster ques as well.

Honestly though this is a player made problem with an easy, player made solution: Stop turtling. Ques were fast the first few days because Horde wasnt turtling. As long as the Horde wants slow, drawn out games they are going to get slow ques because the alliance refuses to have their time wasted.

2 Likes

I’ve seen alot of posts complaining about the current state of pvp, and I hoped to start a reasonable discussion. (probably a bad idea lol)

I understand why people are upset with the premade AV meta. Horde have 30 minute queues, and alliance have to premade or lose 95% of their games. If you want to rank you grind AV for 16 hours a day. It sucks we all agree.

In phase 2 we saw alliance complain, rightfully so, about the state of world pvp. Same way horde are justified in complaining about current of BG queues.

These are both symptoms of the same problem, the horde have a massive numbers advantage in pvp. I came to the conclusion that there are roughly 400 horde queued for AV for every 1 alliance.

For whatever reason, whether it’s racials, people following friends, or just wanting to play with like minded people, almost the entire pvp community chose the same faction. Idk if this is fixable I’ve seen people blaming blizz for the state of pvp but it’s a player made issue. Any solution needs to fix both BG’s and world pvp. Short of faction changes or mass rerolling I don’t see how that’s possible.

You can’t break premades in AV. It’ll just shift the alliance pvp meta to premade WSG. It will most likely double horde queue times for AV. It would just be a bandaid without fixing the real issue.

Unfortunately I see no way to actually fix pvp in classic. We’re stuck with what he have at this point. I wish there was a fix, but it is what it is.

TL:DR pvp issues are player made, blizz can’t fix it. It sucks but we just have to deal with it.

Apparently horde queue times continue to get worse as alliance players hit exalted. And alliance players have been doing alot more premades. Alot of complaints from alliance who don’t do it. If a premade bails on the queue they get stuck starting the match 15v40 and it’s a loss before the gates even open lol. And that happens roughly half the time for pugs now lol

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I dont mind the queues as much as I mind the AV meta. 1.12 AV was the worst idea of Classic.

I also think it was stupid to add cross realm queues, which killed the spirit of the PvP community that was built in Vanilla but dead in Classic. If the point of xrealm queues was to have short queues, then it failed, so remove them and let server transfers fix the worst queue times.

4 Likes

That and alliance players are more about efficiency and getting the grind over with. It seems horde players just enjoy pvp more. And after waiting 30 mins they don’t want to just lose a pve race. So they turtle to actually pvp in a BG, something the alliance won’t do because the general alliance player base doesn’t actually want to pvp

4 Likes

Yeah blizzard needs to address that. It isn’t fun fighting 15 people. I’ve seen this happen before in person. It was one boring win. If you can even call that a win. As well I can see that. When I was alliance back in the day after I got exalted I didn’t return to av ><.

I would agree with you if cross realm queues were roughly equal. But they’re not. Same server BG’s would just increase everyone’s queue times and make the AV meta even worse. On most pvp servers horde would have 2-3 hour AV queues with alliance guilds running premade groups, and if you’re not in them you don’t do AV that simple.

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Not true at all. Most servers are not 5:1 ratios. Not even close. And in the rare cases that it is that bad, we would actually have control over our own situation with server transfers.

It would not make the AV meta worse, it would shift the meta to WSG since AVs would take too long to fill. Just like it was in Vanilla.

The solution to all these problems is to undo what 1.11 and 1.12 did to ruin PvP.

Ive read afew suggestions on how to combat premades one was to hide the AV number and the other was to give players the deserter debuff if they left the queue. imo there are flaws in what are suggested

If you hide the AV number then alliance will queue in WSG instead they wont continue to queue AV without the guarantee of the premade group making the horde AV queue time longer which is the problem for the horde in the first place.

If you give them a 15 min debuff they’ll just take it as opposed to play an AV game that lasts anywhere from 30-50 mins the addition of the deserter debuff will also make horde queues longer.

There isnt a real fix for this other than some how raising the alliance pvp population, which Im gonna be honest I dont see happening any time soon.

I’ve come to the conclusion that there is a very very small chance I will get even R10. Due to the fact that real life is much more important than a video game. Hell, I ain’t even 60 yet. All I like in this game is PvP so all i’m left to do is try to get as much rank as I can, maybe run some dungeons for pre-bis gear and then roam the world looking for world pvp. And i’m a ok with that.

I’ll probably get my a** kicked most of the time, but you bet i’ll be havin a blast do it.

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Sounds good to pretty much everyone except those that don’t want to actually pvp for their pvp rewards. To which I say good riddance.

We dont want to play AV, but we feel we are being forced to.

I’ll give you the WSG meta, that’s most likely what would happen. But server pop isn’t the issue. You could have a 70/30 alliance server, but if alliance don’t queue it won’t matter. Unfortunately that’s what’s happening. When phase 2 started my server was allegedly 52/48 horde. It felt more like 80/20 out in the world because alliance didn’t want to pvp. Idk how you fix that, you can’t force people to pvp. Horde just enjoy it more for whatever reason.

Yes ques make for great farming time. Breaks up both things. I wish allienece had the ques like they did in Vanilla on my server.

Noone really wants to pvp every second they can play. Let alone AV over and over. I was only going for rank 10 but I doubt I bother for a few monthes because of all the no life’s botters etc. That’s not fun in any way or healthy. I still play games to have fun.

PvP is just fine. Players are just fine. The economy is just fine. The community is just fine.

A couple dozen people Chicken Little-ing on the forums doesn’t change the fact that Classic WoW is just fine.

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Basically this. Like I said the OP short of faction changes or mass rerolls the problem can’t be fixed. Imagine the complaints from #nochangers if they put in faction changes lol. Also do shamans magically become pallies? Or are they not allowed to transfer alliance?

Oh it’s fine just changes people’s goals well atleast mine. I’ll still pvp for fun bet meh to rank for awhile.

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Pretty much this. I have no intention of pushing rank. It’s just not worth it. AV isn’t fun, so no point in doing it past exalted. I’ll just do WSG for fun with guildies and I get whatever rank I get lol