Let Anduin be homosexual

And Straight women (and men) know ourselves when we view stories as well. And we’ll impose ourselves onto characters in stories the same way, regardless of whether the author even intended it.
Like I said, human nature.

What we have to do is learn to separate ourselves from from the story, or rather, at least learn to be able to to be able to see it objectively.
Because frankly, the point of a story is so the audience can see themselves in the character. But it’s something of a trap to start to think the story IS US.

Arguably, I can see Alberto as maybe, possibly being gay (but honestly, he came across as every lonely 13 year old boy I’ve ever known desperately seeking a friend and being afraid of losing them.)

So, maybe it was a one-sided love but I still say that’s pushing it.

Maybe, but that train send off with Luca’s lingering look, and the hesitation to leave Alberto, is pulled directly from straight romantic tropes. It’s more accurate to say that Luca and Giulia are just Platonic friends, and Alberto made a sacrifice of love to let Luca follow his passion of getting an education, that’s equally a possibility. It was open-ended, we never saw Luca grow up and marry Giulia

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It also comes from real life experiences from best friends who have to part, knowing they may not see each other again for a long time.

See, I didn’t get a Luca and Giulia relationship either.
The Way I saw it, Luca just didn’t see either Giulia or Alberto in that way. He saw them both as his best friends equally, and would of been just as broken if their positions were reversed.

Coincidentally, if you watched through the ending credits, it does sort of give you an idea of each of their lives from then on. What you take from that is up to the viewer.

The end credits imo show Luca writing letters to Alberto. Alberto bonding with Luca’s family. Luca becoming more and more comfortable “showing himself” as whom he truly is, (that’s also a gay euphemism) to the humans, which is paired with Alberto showing his comfort in being himself (again it’s showing Alberto is more comfortable in his own skin than Luca is, another gay euphemism) The moustache cat has babies and that’s pretty funny. Because despite being a stereotype of machismo, he turns out to be a softie and a good dad, not unlike Massimo. A cute image of Alberto and Luca sound asleep side by side with the proof that Alberto is the quintessential carguy himbo and Luca is the sensitive intellectual. Yeah, there’s nothing in the credits that suggests Luca and Giulia are anything other than friends. This movie is hella queer coded even in the credits.

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Like I said, you can take it however you wish. I wasn’t using it to “prove” anything. Because it doesn’t. It wasn’t meant to mean anything. Anything one sees in it is what they project on to it.

You are right about that, but the overall themes of Luca is about being an outcast and finding belonging, and even the director came out and said that he’s okay with the theme overlapping with LGBT+ experience.

Interpretation is open to everybody.

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The inverse is also true, no one is saying you can’t have platonic friendships at that age but at the same time said relationships can be consider to have romantic undertones as well, Both interpretations can be equally valid and had there been more honest portrayal of say lgbt+ in media that allow child characters to have child crush/romances we problably wouldn’t be having this discussion. But as it is, even adult male friendship are rarely if ever turn romantic, while straight ones become such are just considered the norm(regardless if characters do or do not have chemisty, “love at first sight” seems only reserve for straight characters)

I would point out even season one had Star/Marco destined for each other. So yes, not at the very start, but even middle of the seasons the hints were added.

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To be honest, I can’t even thing of any example of either gay OR straight child characters to have child crush/romances that would be considered “the norm.” Since most examples are fictional tropes in the first place and aren’t really meant to represent reality.

But god knows I seen enough examples of “love at first sight” of both gay and straight characters depicted in fiction and media. So that’s absolutely not true that they’re “only reserve for straight characters.”

Again, that comes back to the common Trope.
Believe it or not, Guys and Girls can be, AND OFTEN ARE, just friends all the time and Guy/Girl friendships are far more common then tropes in fiction (and ignorant people in reality) lead you to believe.

Reminds me of Steve Harvey’s BS about how men and women can never be friends.

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I had my first crush when I was 5 or 6. His name was Jason, he was the quiet kid. I “married” him under the slide at recess when he gave me a flower he picked out of the grass. That’s a pretty “normal” childhood experience. Childhood romances are normal, kids mimic what they see.

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I don’t think that’s still true, unless there’s a mention of the Stormwind thing from after BtS. I think her goal (in BtS) of raising all the inhabitants of Stormwind as undead got quietly discarded when they decided she had been working with the Jailer ever since EoN.

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That’s what frustrates me the most about BFA tbh. They told us in BtS and A Good War her end goal was Stormwind and then BfA pulled a 180. I’m not happy about it.

The Loyalist campaign told us she was helping the Horde Loyalists win. And the Loyalist Epilogue revealed her as a villian.

It feels like the writers lured Sylvanas fans into a state of congnitive dissanance and if that’s true than the writers were cruel to us on purpose. Or thier “choose your own adventure” gambit of player personal choice failed horribly, because the people who choose Loyalist are deemed crazy for our different experience.

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Im not talking about WoW/Blizz, I am talking about the fanbase. Shaw/Flynn was a good pick. Soldier 76 too except I think that one was just a bit handwaved for woke points a bit.

Again, it is the issue of PLAYERS saying “Anduin is kind of feminine. must be gay.”

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There are a lot of players who think like that, that comes from homophobia and toxic masculinity. But I think the people who genuinely want Anduin to be gay do not see him as femimine. Anduin isn’t feminine. He’s very masculine, he’s just not machismo masculine.

“What about the homophobes?!” It’s simple. We don’t listen to them, thier opinions don’t matter, and they don’t deserve a platform, but they have one anyway. To have a tolerant society you have to be intolerant of intolerance.

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It’s homophobes that primarily WANT a gay Anduin >.>

Tbh, I don’t care one way or another. I have said it earlier in the thread, and my sentiments are double now that I have decided the reject Blizz’s authority to dictate WoW lore.

I just think he is better served as a straight character. Making him gay comes off as gross to me. It’s the same breath as Female characters constantly being villainized for pursuing justice against those who wronged them. The subtext would be implying his sexuality is the explanation for his non-masculine personality.

Would making him gay ruin his character? No… I don’t think so. I just think Anduin’s entire character is meant to break stereotypes, not add to them.

Unrelated side note: I don’t think Anduin is masculine at all. You saying he is “very masculine” made me chuckle a bit. Not that I am the Arbiter of masculinity, nor being a non-masculine male is a bad thing.

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Do you even realize what Masculinity is? Anduin looks more like a prince than a man. Not in a “Prince charming from shrek” kinda way or a “Thor prince of asgard” etc. He legit looks like a Boy.

The very OPPOSITE of a MAN

I suggest you Google “Feminine Man” before you post something so ridiculous.

I mean I thought I had heard it all after seeing someone suggest that “SATYRS ARE THE EMBODIMENT OF MASCULINITY” but you, you take the price.

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Please clarify so I understand. What makes you personally view Anduin as not masculine? What about him infers femininty, in your opinion?

What feminine qualities or atributes does he posses that makes him un-masculine? How do you define masculinity?

What does a man need to be in your eyes to be masculine?

I’m honestly curious. I have two sons, I think about these questions and the answers daily.

You say you are a feminist, but I doubt that, you sound more like a radfem, honestly. Part of third wave feminism is understanding that toxic masculinity is a byproduct of misogyny and internalized misogyny. Supporting Men’s Liberation Movement (inclusive to gay men and criticizes the social idea of hegemonic masculinity. But you won’t like that it’s communism stuff) is also supporting feminism.

Machismo isn’t masculinity. One of Anduins’s strongest male attributes in my opinion is his empathy. I just wish that you would actually understand that you think Anduin is feminine and that’s gay because you Aki have internalized misogyny. We’ve had this conversation before. You point at other people and say “they think X” and you think the same thing. You are them Aki.

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Varian and arthas are far more masculine than Anduin is. Anduin is literally the text book definition of “Feminine man”. He looks like he is part of one of those “Twitter stans” song group like Harry styles etc.

Hell the guy reminds me of Alphinaud soo hard its ridiculous.

I think what ultimately defines masculinity/femininity is a multi-variable equation. A combination if social and biological factors.

The social variables are likely to change and the biological ones are not. An example being, high-heels beginning as men’s fashion. Now almost exclusively female fashion. Unlike, maybe… Combat roles? Which isn’t exclusively male now or historically, but men are still more likely to pursue and succeed in those roles.

So, what makes something masculine and feminine changes over time, but there are some aspects that remain consistent. But it is important to understand how these things are defined, because “masculine” isn’t exclusive to men. “Feminine” isn’t exclusive to women either. When we are speaking in such generalized terms like “Men and Women”, we are talking about traits in the extremes of the distribution, because that is where you find the differences. Men and women are more similar than not, but at the extremes there are measurable differences, and that is the influence for the sociocultural definitions of Masculine and Feminine.

Another example, men are physically larger and stronger than women. Does this mean there is no women larger than a man? Surely not. Does this mean that a woman will never be stronger than a man? No, there are strong women and weak men. But if you take the top 10 biggest, strongest people in the world, they are all men.

But this biological marker influence the sociocultural definitions. It is statistically true, when it comes to physical violence in marriage, women attack their husbands more than husbands attack their wives. This is a bit in conflict with other statistics we have, where in the extremes, women are more associated with traits of agreeableness and nurturing, and men are over-represented in anti-social personality disorders that makes them prone to violence. So why do women attack their husbands more than husbands attack their wives?

Well, men are bigger and stronger on average. So the consequences for them attacking women is much more sever than vice versa. Which is also why we hear about women being victims of domestic abuse when men are marginally more likely to be such.

So we can see how several biological factors play into the sociocultural development of gender roles. I think it is a mistake to look at this and say “Gender is defined by biology”. That is fine when you are talking about large groups of people. But the context changes when you are talking about an individual.

Women might be more likely to hit their husbands than vice versa. But you can’t point to a random woman on the street and assume she beats her husband. That’s not how it works.

Women are more associated with the trait of agreeableness, but not all women are agreeable. So it is wrong to look at definitions of masculine and feminine as recipes on how to be a man or a woman. I would say those words are used to describe traits and the sociocultural impact of those traits, like I described above, as it relates to men and women. And those things are complex, multivariable things, and the variables are different for every person. Even then, they don’t always translate from one culture to another either. Despite the biological markers being the same. It has more to do with how those markers have been organically interpreted by that society.

When I say Anduin isn’t masculine… I don’t mean that in an insulting way. He has traits that are more associated with women, is all. He is agreeable, he is nurturing. A big part of it is appearance as well, and that is an aspect I do not entirely understand. Being pretty is seen as feminine whereas being rugged or handsome is seen as masculine, and I wonder if that is just a consequence of men being more likely to be in combat and labor roles. Thus men more likely being rugged in appearance? I don’t know.

TLDR… the terms masculine and feminine are just words we use to describe generalized observations between the sexes in out society, and while there is measurable differences, the degrees in which an individual might carry these traits is extremely varied.

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I don’t think we have any political views in common and our views of feminism, and society are wildly different. You are a Capitalist. I’m a Communist. You are alt-right. I’m a Socialist. You support false MRA statistics. I support The Men’s Liberation Movement. I support BLM, you don’t.

We are not the same. We do not see the world the same way, and we will never agree on any irl topic.

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