Oh we have historical references of these situations actually, but it would require Andiun to actually marry a woman and then find a baby to adopt and pretend that child is his true heir. But to answer your question then yes on a meta level the Wrynn family is dead but everyone else still thinks its legitimate and this secretly adopted child still has claim to the throne.
Until of course the story gets interesting and the priest fesses up to this imposter and we have ourselves a nice juicy succession war.
But to answer your question then yes on a meta level the Wrynn family is dead but everyone else still thinks its legitimate and this secretly adopted child still has claim to the throne.
So why can’t this also be true for gay Anduin adopting a child so long as everyone in Stormwind comes to an agreement that adopted children have legitimate claims to the throne…like by passing a law.
You’d still have to deal with any potential magical aspect - if the Wrynn bloodline has some sort of enchantment placed upon it - adoption would not work based on the rules on how such enchantments seem to transfer.
If Wrynn isn’t a magical bloodline then it doesn’t matter.
Because then all the other noble families would know this adopted child is an imposter and be outraged some nobody without their noble heritage will suddenly become their overlord.
Andiun can try to pass a law but his nobility will rebel.
I am not even opening that can worms, just dealing with this hereditary monarchy level which seems to be what Silriven is interested in.
Can you provide me a concrete citation or example from lore which states that Stormwind monarchs specifically must have biological heirs in order to pass down enchantments through biology?
Because then all the other noble families would know this adopted child is an imposter and be outraged some nobody without their noble heritage will suddenly become their overlord.
But what if no one was outraged because same sex couples adopting children was a common thing amongst the nobility and they wouldn’t think it unusual that Anduin or any other monarch in a same sex relationship would also do this?
So an adopted child would not be a cause for outrage but this child must have a biological claim to the throne if andiun wants that kid to be his heir.
So lets say Andiun marries a woman, has a child but this woman dies or they divorce or whatever and he marries a man and adopts a second child.
The second child cannot ever be an heir to the Wrynn throne because he has no blood relation to them but the first child will be the only heir.
As I said Andiun can marry and adopt but this adopted child cannot be the next king or queen.
Stormwind Monarchs- no I can’t because I haven’t seen any evidence that they have any such enchantment on the Stormwind Monarchs. There might be one we aren’t aware of - but no evidence of that. But if they want to say the Stormwind Monarchs do have such magic in the future - then Andy having kids becomes important.
Magic being transfer to biological offspring is definitely in the lore. Medivh inherited the powers of the Guardian from his mother - it was the only way for his mother to transfer her power without the council’s aid - and she was dead set bucking the council at the time.
Bwomsamdi’s deal was also directly transferred from the Troll King his daughter upon the King’s death.
That’s two different types of magic - Arcane and Death/Necromancy - transferring in the same manner/principle.
this child must have a biological claim to the throne if andiun wants that kid to be his heir.
I’d like to drill down into this sentence, because this really gets at the crux of my point. The concept of “the throne”, what it is, who can hold the position, succession, etc., is something that only has meaning because the people of Stormwind give it meaning. These laws were created by someone, likely a group of someones, at some point in time, in an Azeroth where same sex relationships are common and accepted. Many, not all, same sex couples cannot have biological children. So why would a gay member of the nobility, or any straight noble who has no bias against same sex couples, create a law that says a claim to the throne is only legitimate if some kind of compulsory heterosexual sex happens? My opinion is that they would not, this would not happen because in a society consisting of completely un-homophobic nobles, “biological” family lines wouldn’t have the same kind of importance that they did historically in some European monarchies, for example, where homophobia was in fact a big issue and same sex couples were rare because of social stigmas, etc.
Except there are at least two examples of magical power following biological inheritance within the story - which have been cited - Aegwynn/Medivh and Bwomsamdi/Rastakhan/ Talanji.
There are also political examples within the alliance being the bloodline heir to a family was important. Lothar getting initial aid from the high elves during the second war. And Moira ruling the Darkirons because she is the mother of the next emperor/king, despite being a Bronzebeard.
Humans can create whatever legal system they like - but they cannot rewrite the laws of magic in this world - and the history of the politics of this world states that bloodline biological heirs are important.
The problem is your trying to put modern thoughts and ideologies into a medieval plotline, where we know for a fact bloodline is important as it has come up recently in the story. It isn’t as simple as your saying, they can’t just pass a law.
We know for a fact that Genn wants Anduin to have a child to become his heir, or else the nobles will start a civil war once he dies. It has to be his blood, it is how these types of things work- it isn’t meant to go against people who have a homosexual sexual orientation. It is just how it is for humans, and for the dwarves for that matter. As well as Sin’dorei(For a time), Zandalari Trolls, Highmountain Tauren, Mulgore Tauren and Darkspear Trolls(Though Vol’jins line died out)
But on top of those we have many races that are not revolved around bloodlines that this could work for such as Gnomes, Kaldorei, Shal’dorei, Vulpera, Draenei, Pandaren, Undead, Goblins, Lightforged Draenei, Ren’dorei, Mag’har…there are a variety of governmental systems on Azeroth, and a few being focused on bloodlines isn’t a terrible thing.
The idea of a bloodline incorperating adopted children isn’t a new, modern idea, it’s been mentioned before in this thread that Roman nobles did this. You can google “adoption in ancient rome” and find an explanation on wikipedia. And I think that the idea that Anduin needs to marry a woman and have a biological heir or else the nobles will start a civil war should be flat-out retconned, which I’ve said a few times by now, it was in my very first post about this.
Not everything is the roman empire, don’t know what to tell you. This is just how a feudal monarchy such as Stormwind and the others work. You have so many other races you could advocate for instead of just trying to change Stormwind completely from how it currently is. I personally love Monarchies and the entire bloodline aspect, it can bring interesting stories.
Again, for the hundredth time, Stormwind’s monarchy evolved in a society where homophobia doesn’t exist, unlike the feudal monarchies you’re referring to, so their laws of inheritance and succession would therefore be different.
Again, I know what’s been stated in lore, my point is that this should be changed moving forward. Genn’s concerns in Before the Storm should be tweaked or flat out retconned to just be a concern that Anduin needs to secure an heir, period, not that he absolutely must have sex with a woman and make a baby as his only option to do so.
Not modern at all. Those are even older than medieval. Make differences for such statements.
Interesting enough: In very old lore Trolls did not follow bloodlines, they followed the one who could take power. But this was forgotten since…uff… quite some time and changed.
The main point here and in Genn’s concern is really to keep the power in the Wrynn family. That’s really it.
But if Anduin adopted a child, that child would then become a member of the Wrynn family, therefore power would still stay within the Wrynn line when that child ascended to the throne. Likewise any children that child had or adopted would also be members of the Wrynn line, and so forth. This is how adoption works.
There’s this idea that just because homosexual relationships are common and accepted - that means the succession must also have some allowance non-biological heirs.
I’m going to cite the Greeks - specifically the Spartans to disprove the idea that just because gay relationships were common and accepted - but they also had to maintain two bloodline kings.
Some historians have stated that Spartans Soldiers purposefully engaged in sexual relations with their subordinates - either to toughen them up (if you believe that this was non-consenting situation) - or to make them fight harder because they would be constantly have a situation where there loved ones were in danger (if this was a love situation).
Spartan Kings had also had to be able to claim direct biological descent from Hercules… adoption would not work in this case god blood doesn’t transfer to adopted kids.
This is proof that you can have a homosexual norm in society - and still require biological heirs.