Evacuate where?
Give me locations that he could have but didn’t.
He established it in Thunderbluff.
Which Alliance leader showed their face in a zone conflict zone and fought?
Or made a command center?
Or whatever else you fantasize about?
You are implying Baine did less than what others did… so prove it.
Ashenvale was on fire where were the Alliance leaders?
Jaina and North watch?
What about Swamps of Sarrows or Hillsbrad or Westfall and so on and so on.
What were Andiun and Jaina or anyone else doing in the middle of all this that Baine refused to do?
Crossroads, Mulgore (because he assumed it was save before the attack), Orgrimmar, Ratshed, etc.
I already did. Baine never fought against the Alliance to defend his people. Let him do something in game. Even Megatrouge was part of Dazar’alor (sure that was offensive).
Also don’t forget the main point of contention here. You were claiming Baine is on the same level as Jaina, when he clearly isn’t. Name me one time where Baine defend any Tauren against the Alliance. One example.
I have to agree. Even Vol’jins death and the long waiting until the confirmation to who is now leading the Darkspears was so jarring and the same goes for the Orcs. Who is leading them right now? Thrall again?
Both Crossroads and Mulgor were untouched in comparison to the rest of the Barrens.
There was no imminent danger so an evacuation would have been pointless.
We are talking about cataclysm Mulgor and Barrens. Where in Cataclysm did another leader show up to fight against invaders.
Name them.
Cataclysm when he built the wall and protected Mulgor from invasion.
Of course you have to evacuate the people living in the Barrens. I think that’s rather clear.
Tyrande defending the Night Elves in Ashenwale and Varian defending the Night elves and fighting against Garrosh, all in the same novel.
The Orcs for example had generals under direct leadership in the Barrens.
For a second I wanted to list Varian, his trials and different Alliance leaders, but that was during MoP.
Not much in Cata, but the story went on to MoP: Vol’jin against Garrosh and pretty much all the others at SoO. We also had others on the Isle of Thunder etc.
So, not even one example. There is not one example, of Baine defending his people against the Alliance.
You are not saying anything of purpose either. He has shown attraction to women for years, zero to men. If you actually read the books you’d know he’s been attracted to other races for years yet they keep pushing humans on him. You think maybe he was talking about that? Seems right with the lore.
Fight for a new leader to be LGBTQ, give it 5 minutes the horde will need a new one anyway and leave Anduin alone.
Given that Crossroads is a major city center with ample defences thats were the refugees will be going.
In cataclysm? Please link the quest.
Which quest is Varian in Ashenvale?
Looks like so far you failed to properly show me the Alliance leaders fighting on Frontlines in cataclysm.
Baine managed to build a wall in the middle of a war and protected his own people.
Honestly I wish Alliance managed to do half of what he does.
Everytime the Horde attacks Alliance get completely wrecked while the leaders do nothing but angrily shaking their first before hugging it out with the Horde.
Novel. Wolfheart. All in the same novel. The thing here is: Some leaders did fight in novels, or even in game. I have to admit his small part against the Zandalari cultists was neat in Shadows Rising and I hope we will get more of that.
You can go one to ignore the lore if you want to, that’s on you. https://www.amazon.de/World-Warcraft-Wolfheart-Richard-Knaak/dp/1451605765
Wrong again. Baine did not protect his own people. The Alliance was in Mulgore, behind his wall and attacked his people. That’s a fact.
All you’ve managed to do so far is to show how much more pathetic Baine is and that Jaina did a lot more than he likley ever will.
Who still has their city left standing?
Jaina or Baine?
And yeah the wall is only as good as those defending it. Its not a magic forcefield that pushes all aggression away.
I have proven that given the fact that Mulgor stands and the Tauren have not had a burning of Teldrassil or a Theramore nuke dropped on them or a single territory occupied by the Alliance speaks of his success as a leader.
To bad you can’t be happy about that.
LOL yeah Alliance is famous for thwarting Horde genocides and city level destructions.
I will only replay to this, so you may understand.
Stopping something and trying to stop something from happening are not the same thing.
Look. Let’s just say: Jaina did more and you exaggerated and the day Baine will defend any Horde member from the Alliance, that day will be a major event.
As a gay/ questioning guy, my first crush was on a girl. I flirted with girls- a lot. After puberty hit, my attraction started shifting… a lot. Childhood crushes may not really mean much due to the effects of conditioning and a lack of mental and emotional development.
But all of this can be resolved by just making him bisexual.
What if blizzard wants Stormwind to be more akin to old European monarchies, rather than the Roman empire?
Plenty of reasons then.
It seems Warcraft’s overall monarchies are very much based on a line of succesion, have always been. Why change that piece of lore now? Individual races within the Alliance have differing ways of choosing a ruler. Tyrande is just the pope, I believe Gelbin is actually an elected King, the Draenei was ruled by a council of three, now it is just Velen in charge, Dalaran is ruled by a council, Stormwind is based on a european monarchy.
Why change it? What would the reason be? There is no need to change one specific kingdom to promote inclusivity, when the different races have differing styles of ruling.
I’m not telling you how to feel about Jaina or Anduin.
Baines writing is strange though. Even the one time he did something (after Garrosh went first), it was against the quilboar. Which in itself isn’t bad. It seems strange to me this had to happen in Cata though and he really did not get much spotlight. But that’s of course a different conversation again.
You ignored everything I said in that post that you directly quoted and what others have said in this thread, so let’s start there if we’re going to speculate about who hasn’t actually read what. And as many, many people have already said, even when taking the most charitable interpretation of those scenes, Flynn is bisexual with the precedent of having a crush on Taelia, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to argue that bisexual people don’t exist and contradict the lore. Did I phrase that in a way that you can actually understand or do I need to try again using simpler words?
I don’t really care what you personally think I or anyone else should or shouldn’t spend time talking about, I’m entitled to my opinion same as you.
If Blizzard wants Stormwind to be more akin to old European monarchies they have much bigger problems than having adoption be a way of carrying on a bloodline, they should probably start by taking out the modern train to Ironforge and remove the entire mage district because last I checked magic didn’t exist in old European monarchies either. While we’re at it, Stormwind should get rid of it’s airship fleet and the gryphon mounts…we could be here all day doing this, like this is a fantasy MMO, why is a monarch adopting an heir the one thing that’s stretching people’s imaginations too far here?
There is a difference between political processes within the story and the technology available to transport people from spot to another - and you know that.
Were going in circles - but there’s a pattern within the story that says the kingship is a bloodline succession. That sets up an expectation that there is some burden on the king to produce offspring to continue that bloodline.
Inter-race relations within the alliance do seem to have bloodline basis on continuing generation to generation.
Anduin - can choose not to produce offspring - but that is choice that will have weigh and consequence for the future of Stormwind - and they should lean into that idea if that’s where they want to go with the story.
I am sorry, but are you really saying that we can’t take inspiration and implement real life government systems into a fantasy world? Surely that is NOT the direction you want to go.
Why is your notion of how a fantasy kingdom should run, any better than any others?
Why can’t there be hereditary titles? Why shouldn’t Stormwind have heirs?
As I said, there are many places where there are rooms for adoptiv children to become kings, queens, but thus far, Stormwind and many other human kingdoms of Warcraft, is not that.
Were going in circles - but there’s a pattern within the story that says the kingship is a bloodline succession. That sets up an expectation that there is some burden on the king to produce offspring to continue that bloodline.
We’re going in circles because you don’t seem capable of understanding that adoption can be a form of bloodline succession…which would be taking inspiration from real life government systems in a fantasy world.
