. . . I will burn this ship myself if I have to, and laugh as it sinks harder then the tracer widowmaker ship or the zuko katana one . . . It will be glorious.
Hard pass. Only book/audio book I didn’t buy.
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Anduin can be whatever you prefer in your head in-game. Players do not care either way.
The fact that Anduin is one of the few non-toxic examples of masculinity in the entire game makes this desire to see him gay a little offensive??? I mean, that is a criticism sensitive men IRL have a problem with… they get accused of being gay, because they dared to feel a single emotion ever that wasn’t unbridled rage, or lust for a woman. I’m all for more LGBTQ+ represenation in this game, but Anduin does not need to be one of them. Let sensitive men be sensitive without stamping them with labels you think fit their personality. Go for the more subversive choice here… JUST MAKE EVERYONE BISEXUAL. Literally everyone… there are no downsides!!! Bi-supremacy ftw, sorry not sorry. 
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Why wouldn’t they? the writer said homophobia doesn’t exist in Azeroth.
Homophobia doesn’t exist in Azeroth, but two males can’t have a child. Even the most progressive people, when confronted with the need for an heir or their entire societal monarchical structure collapses, aren’t going to be pleased about the ruler deciding to eschew his duty.
Unless we have evidence that Stormwind would accept an adopted child as the rightful heir to the throne (a matter of great contention throughout actual history), there are compelling reasons to believe the House of Nobles would intervene at every step of the way. Not because they hate gay people, but because the King has a duty to his nation that includes a proper heir.
Once again people need to quit trying to force or imply there needs to be gay, straight, whatever in games like these. Its not me saying it shouldn’t exist but games like these are made to surround a fantasy and medieval style and back then there really was not any of that stuff in existence. It happened behind closed doors yes but people wanted kin and heirs. If anything if any of that stuff exists at all its because blizzard tried in a small way to appease people to get them to not rally for more of it. Now if you want to go make a fantasy game with all of that in there more power to you and I hope you find success but for now lets quit trying to force games to appease your personal wants.
How do you know they can’t? Thing is they have never focused on the child rearing aspect. but why do you assume the worse?
Unless you can show me the evidence that does not exist for your point, I think this convo is moot.
The author has made it all perfectly clear, yet here you are creating issues that don’t exists and asking for validation of said non issues. I am so glad they ignore the forums as a whole.
This is one of those moments where you really need to stop and ask yourself if you’re genuinely asking a question, or if you’re simply being contrary for the sake of disliking the possibility of the other persons accuracy.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that any sentient males on Azeroth can give birth, or carry children directly themselves. Once-canon pieces suggest that Harpies, for example, undergo either parthenogenesis (reproduction in absence of a mate, so not through genetic exchange with another person) or… well… by stealing men to “do the duty.”
Of course those are declared non-canon at this point for a variety of other reasons, but it does suggest, at the least, that the design intent there is that Harpies probably can’t reproduce normally on their own. They either undergo self-fertilization in absence of a partner, or they maybe steal partners. Male harpies have never been observed.
When we look at other races, and beyond, we notice a similar trend of sexual dimorphism and strong trends towards reproduction based on biological genders. Given the widespread existence of these differences between the genders, present in basically all sentient races that we have access to, it’s unreasonable to make leaps of logic that implies they operate differently than we expect.
#TLDR
Saying “how do you know they can’t” is a useless question. We have a surplus of evidence to support rough arguments for the process evolving similar to how we did. We can assume, at least, that humans are similar to us. Without evidence that human males can carry a child to term (or even begin such a process), we must rely on what we do know.
You’re the one suggesting they can. Logical discourse dictates its own you to prove your claim. The common understanding is that they can’t. If you want to challenge that, you’ll need to show why it makes sense.
Otherwise, you’re just sensationalistically contrarian for the sake of diversity with no actual supporting evidence. “You can’t prove they don’t” is not a fully formed rational argument, it’s a childish rebuttal that carries no weight for lack of evidence, logic, or reason.
The author (Blizzard) made it clear that homophobia doesn’t exist. This means that culturally no one concerns themselves with it. It’s not a problem for people on a societal level if they are homosexual.
That’s fine. No one is questioning that. You’re the one framing “biological capacity” with homophobia, despite issues relating to that biological capacity being logistical issues and not judgmental issues.
Let’s put it this way:
- Anduin has only ever been represented as liking women. Multiple times.
- Anduin has been pressured to find a spouse and create heirs.
- Genn Greymane, during Before the Storm, specifically pressured Anduin to find a queen to settle down with and have an heir.
By our own lore here, either Anduin is absolutely straight and Genn ignored any male-male possibilities (even if they existed) because Anduin is straight, or Genn specifically said queen with the specific intent of heirs.
Either way there’s no support for males in Azeroth being able to bear children, and lots of support for Anduin being not only straight but heavily encouraged to find a queen.
So… I disagree with your outlook, and that makes me a bad guy?
As a gay man who grew up dealing with all sorts of issues relating to that over the years, I’m going to level with you. A man, in a fantasy series, who’s King, being told he has to have an heir, is not at all unusual or weird. It’s not strange that he couldn’t have an heir with another man because that’s just biology as we understand it given the situation.
I get the feeling that you’re the kind of person who’d label people as “non-allies” because they don’t support your completely unfounded desires. If that person were gay, trans, or what have you, you’d call them “homophobic” just because they support logic and not your fantasy theories.
“Why can’t Anduin be gay? HUH!?” - He could have been, but he’s at the very least bisexual with zero evidence for men.
“Well how do you know men can’t have babies!?! WELL!? WHY NOT!?” - Unsupported speculation is unsupported. Logical and reasonable discourse covers what we know, not fantastical ideas of what you’d rather believe.
TLDR
Until you can provide some evidence to backup your claims, or suggestions, that have no current evidence, you’re just screaming into the wind. We have no reason to believe Anduin can have children with a man. We have no reason to believe Anduin is homosexual.
These are fantasies that you, and others, are suggesting. The claim being made is by you and the OP, not by people pointing out the claim doesn’t hold water.
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I am not reading any of your wall of fan fiction.
You can keep posting all the injustices you think exist because they have never covered this content ever, and think this is a slight. It’s not.
You are looking to create an issue, a narrative to suit what you want the game to be.
You are not the center of WoW.
Not going to engage with your fan fiction any further. You do nothing for your community when you do this at all.
So you were a troll who wasn’t interested in an actual discussion. Got it. Bye felicia.
Wasn’t posting about injustices that I think exist because I don’t think they exist. You’re the one that thinks that Anduin not being able to bear young with a male, and his nobility insisting on him having an heir, as unjust.
Yet this is covered in the books already. “Before the Storm,” I suggest you read it.
Nope, that’s you. Again. All I said was that Anduin isn’t gay and men can’t have babies. Neither of which you can argue.
Not sure where I said this, but… obviously? I am, in fact, saying that Anduin is straight, and needs an heir, which would be me not being the center since I am, in fact, a gay man.
“Your community” what kind of absolute tripe is this? What community? The WoW community? I’m supporting official lore. The gay community? I’m supporting official lore and asking to avoid pandering for the sake of it.
You are, positively, delusional.
That’s a big yikes from me, Alakhai.
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Isn’t the fact that he didn’t after all that pressure should tell you a different story? What if Anduin is actually gay/bisexual? Would you support him being who he is or would you still prefer him to follow the social pressure of being a king?
Thanks I am happy to be bolded and called out by bigots.
Yeah let’s bring that up. I have posted multiple times in this thread. You only focused on the one I did with you. Why?
Because I state facts? Like you jumped over here?
As I said. You are creating an imaginary issue in your mind when you say two men can’t have a child. Where did this happen? It didn’t , YOU MADE THAT UP. Then you asked for validation to prove this is not the case, when again here’s my quote you broke down to again nothing I will read.
That’s you! Asking for validation of a non issue. You get that?
Nah much easier to demonize me in big font instead of internalizing your fan fiction.
I’d say Happy WoWing, but I presume you won’t feel that til they address imaginary issues that you created.
Anduin already has well established arguments for why he declined. Anduin was encouraged, by his father, to find love like he did. Anduin even states, outright, that he finds the idea of a forced, arranged, marriage to be extremely unpalatable.
He also said that he believes the woman that Genn recommended would also find it unpalatable, even if they are on good terms.
If they want to write Anduin as bisexual (he’s already been interested in women, so it’s the only route left besides pansexual or something), they can do so. They’re going to have to explain a few things and do it well.
Why have we never seen Anduin interested in men if homophobia never existed? How is Anduin going to handle an heir? Exactly what form of power is the relationship going to take relative to the Alliance and Stormwind?
Obviously his spouse would be co-ruler of Stormwind, so that’s not too difficult (though it might be “King Consort” rather than a second “King”). The heir would almost certainly have to be something novel, but Anduin could try to change the laws and recognize an adoption legally. It’s tricky that he’s never shown interest in men, but has outright shown interest in women multiple times, though. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but it’s cause of question.
I’m not opposed to Anduin being gay on a personal level. I’m saying that as things are written now it just doesn’t add up. There’s no evidence of his attraction to men, and whether we like it or not a believable story is likely going to require the whole “heir” bit to be explained somehow.
I know it’s easy to say “social pressure” but it’s more than that. The House of Nobles funds Stormwind. The King doesn’t just have infinite money, he gets it from the elite and wealthy. This is somewhat par for the course; a ruler who’s lost favor with those who hold wealth and power is in a precarious position. If the House of Nobles insists on a blood heir they could cause significant problems. I’m being mindful of that reality.
1 Like
- Bigot
- Noun
- a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
People who disagree with you and challenge your opinions are not bigots. It needs to be more than just disagreeing.
Perhaps you consider my stances unreasonable, but the reality is that all I’ve argued is stuff supported by in game logic. Nothing you’ve suggested is supported by anything but your own conjecture.
I can’t be a bigot for not entertaining your speculative arguments. That’s just disagreeing.
You really are crazy, aren’t you?
I said they can’t biologically produce one together. I never claimed that two men can’t adopt and raise a child. I even pointed out that historically such an adoption would be problematic for right of secession, which is a potential problem.
You suggested two men can biologically reproduce without the aid of a female. You can either back that up, or you can’t. Until such evidence emerges, it’s standard protocol to go with what we know; that men generally can not have babies with men, unless that species is particularly unique.
I’m not asking for validation. I said exactly what I meant, and exactly what’s plausible. I don’t need you to validate that statement.
Blood heirs are a huge issue even in the modern world. We see it all the time with people who refuse to adopt because they want their own kids. We’ve seen it in monarchies throughout time. Raising that as a potential issue is not asking for validation, it’s pointing out a logical problem that could arise.
I love how you pretend that actual lore based issues are “imaginary.”
You’re a hoot, friend-but-not-friend. I’m out, you’re too crazy for me.
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I see nothing wrong with Anduin being homosexual. It would be interesting and he would be the first gay king. Please make it happen blizzard!
Anduin is already into women, so he’d have to be bisexual at a bare minimum. I don’t see anything wrong with him being bisexual, mind you, but it does get in the way of him having a blood-heir (edit for clarity: only if he takes a monogamous male partner, of course). I guess he’d be the first gay king on Azeroth, but hardly the first gay king in any literature.
My real problem is that this just seems like pandering for the sake of it, personally. As a gay man, who’s only credentials here are being a lore buff and a gay man, I just don’t see the value in artificially creating gay representation inorganically. It does more harm than good, in my mind, to just start making existing characters gay just because.
That has a nice Wrynng to it.
Anduin would be a very bad choice, if not the worst.
If Blizzard did make him gay, then it would have many unfortunate implications. Do you really want the first major gay male character to be the guy who just happens to be the softest and most feminine man? He would be reinforcing negative stereotypes.
Due to those same reasons, Baine would also be a bad choice.
If you really want Blizzard to make one of the male characters gay, there really aren’t a lot of good options, especially if you want a character everyone knows. The “best” (and by best, I mean least bad) options are Garrosh and Wrathion.
Of course this is all just a thought experiment, because Blizzard values a certain foreign market over human rights. It’s why Pelagos’ backstory was cut completely from a certain region’s client. The most you would get would be a brief mention in a novel, a bit of quest text, or a few voice clips in the game. All things that would be very easy for them to censor. Nothing major like an in-game cinematic or major plot developments, despite how much potential they may have (civil war in stormwind because Anduin won’t produce a blood heir).
Let Anduin attend Sunday church in Stormwind.