Relic acquisition is rng. Get no relics and you’ve got an ilvl 50 weapon. Get ilvl 50 relics and at level 50 your weapon is 70. Get no relics and you’re out of luck, hopefully you did quests that gave some inferior relics or picked some up off the ground. Spamming dungeons is no guarantee you will get any relics.
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Relics are obtained through quests guaranteed and scale with level, although you can also get rng drops as well as dungeon drops as well.
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It’s a bit curious that you consider this to be an issue when one of the defining features of ‘old content’ is not.
I don’t suppose you’d accept your argument as a defense? That fixing this would be taking time away from other things? That it’s not a big deal?
Or is this different because it impacts you?
Forgive me, that may have been presumptuous. Though I am curious as to why you feel it’s important that they fix old instance content ‘scaling horribly’ and not old weapons ‘scaling horribly’.
Especially when the old alternative that existed - the quartermasters who specifically sold weapons for things like this - no longer work.
I suppose I also wonder how you would respond if someone told you “that’s not a big issue, just run a different instance”. You’d agree, yes?
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It doesn’t impact me at all. That doesn’t mean those things I listed aren’t actual issues that people are reporting and are concerned about.
Being unable to complete content that players were certainly able to complete prior to 9.0 is an actual gameplay problem.
It’s not old weapons scaling horribly 
The items go from 20 ilvl up to 70 ilvl over 50 levels of content. The fact that someone is too lazy to do the content is a player issue not a gameplay issue.
These were never “alternatives” the old quartermasters where never there to provide weapons that were an alternative to artifacts. Artifacts were the only weapons for Legion content, period.
I’m not sure how you can correlate not being able to physically complete content as being the same as “I need to do 3 quests to get a relic to upgrade my weapon”
One thing makes the content of the game unplayable, the other simply requires you to actually play the game.
It’s a non-issue, and the “request” is simply born out of laziness and the desire not to play the game.
Why should the game be designed for people who don’t want to play it?
You don’t think that having to switch timelines in order to get a weapon that’s usable for the timeline you’re currently in is a gameplay problem? But being unable to solo Zandalar rares is one?
I realize it probably isn’t your intent, but you are coming off as more than a little dismissive to what other people are saying. Again, using the argument you put forth, people can just get high level friends for old content, and it’s not that big of a deal.
It’s…things like this. It has nothing to do with laziness. The original poster explicitly stated that they used a workaround. The problem is that they shouldn’t have to.
If there are seven roads to get to work, and one person chooses the 7th road because they were told all roads work, then they find out there’s a massive pothole in the middle of the road? You understand why they might take issue with that? Even if they went and made a detour, the fact of the matter is that they shouldn’t have to. Especially if no other road has that problem, and this particular road made a big deal about no-potholes.
Just so we’re clear, because I acknowledge that I sometimes “don’t get it”:
Are you telling me that there were no quartermasters who sold weapons that were used for Legion content? That this weapon was never sold by this quartermaster, despite both of them being introduced in 7.0.3, it looks like?
Because that’s demonstrably false.
It’s a bit more than three. That’s not the point, but that does suggest it’s been a while since you’ve done it. You get those at key moments in zone storylines, not after a couple of quests in Azsuna.
And I’m not sure what content you’re talking about that makes the game unplayable. You mentioned Zandalar rares. Is that it? Because how do you respond to people who would say “just get some friends and do it”?
Neither having an artifact weapon nor being unable to do some legacy content renders the game unplayable. Both seem like they’re due to scaling errors. Why do you want one scaling error fixed, and not the other?
This kind of jaded, baseless cynicism helps no one. Laziness would be to do nothing about. This is someone - a few people - who are actually taking the time to bring something to the attention of other players, and possibly the developers.
I can tell you right now that I came across this thread because I didn’t know if it was a bug that when I got Talonstrike, it was over 20 levels lower than my crafted Inscription weapon.
Seriously, how does that work? How does “I’m letting people know about something that impacts the game” translate to a “desire not to play the game”? Walk me through this.
I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not just saying this just to be difficult. Because it sounds like you’re saying “I think this problem that impacts me is important, but if you mention this problem it’s because you’re lazy; despite that the problem has the same source.”
That’s simply 100% false. The reason they hate to hotfix it to have a level requirement is because they existed for a spec you felt like playing, but didn’t acquire a different artiffact. Different specs can have different weapon requirements, like having a two-hander for one, but two one-hander for the other spec. Or one spec required a certain weapon type, whereas the other spec required a different. The quartermaster was there to supply those weapons before you had the corresponding artifact for that spec. It certainly wasn’t there to sell you something that was supposed to replace your artifact at max level, as it is now with Legion caped at level 45 outside of Chromie Time.
Also, this argument that it’s about not wanting to play the content is also rediculous. Pre-Patch, I had levelled 9 classes through Legion content specifically to complete the class campaign. I used just the artifact, and put in a relic on the odd occasion I got one, but it was also good enough that having those relics was a bonus. The artifact started at the same level legion content started.
I had three more classes, all at level 100, with an artifact, ready to complete the Legion content. Their level, and all of their gear, was scaled down appropriately - except the artifact. At first, I didn’t understand why I felt so weak, thinking it had to do with the class, but then noticed my add-on saying weapons from WoD and MoP were better! I switched to a mining pick from WoD and did better damage! An even better solution was just leaving Legion, doing the BFA intro quest, and immediately being given a level appropriate weapon!
It’s not about a lack of desire to play the content, it’s about having artifacts be level appropriate, for the mobs you are doing, as is done for gear in every other expansion. It’s about being able to enter, at whatever level, and begin able to use your artifact right away, as you always could, rather than waiting for relics to appear that finally make it strong enough. The current system actually discourages playing Legion if you are above level 30.
So Sorry, it has EVERYTHING to do with me wanting to play the content, but playing it in the manner it was pre-patch and how every other expansion works.
You don’t? The artifact weapon is perfectly useable for Legion content, not sure why you are getting the impression it isn’t.
No, I’m telling you they were never a replacement or alternative to artifact weapons. The fact they aren’t still shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone one.
If you look at the top of the thread I literally did it the other week, on a level 41 Monk. In Highmountain you do the two river hubs which are 4 quests and then get your relic from the 5th when you enter the cave.
Each one after that is about 3 quests into recruiting each of the clans to support Highmountain.
That’s outside of dungeons and random drops which you can also get.
That was but one thing I mentioned, and I never mentioned unplayable with that specific example.
However going from being able to complete content ie players could previously kill them and they are required for quests to being unable to is definitely more important than “I just don’t want to get relics”.
If content is no longer able to be completed but was previously how is that content not no longer playable for the player?
How is a weapon that scales from 20 ilvl to 70 ilvl broken? That seems like scaling working perfectly fine to me. If you couldn’t increase it’s ilvl at all and it was permanently ilvl 20 I would agree with you but that is just not the case.
OP asked why they were scaled down and said they were unusable, they were informed why it was a lower level, and also how to address it.
That is when they decided it was “broken” and that they didn’t want to get relics to upgrade the weapon as intended.
The fact that they refused to believe it was broken not intended and complain that they shouldn’t have to actually do the content is laziness.
They were given all the tools and decided instead that complaining was the best option because that doesn’t require them to play the game.
It’s not the same source, nor the same problem, nor a problem at all. If people just get the relics (which scale) as is intended by the design of the game and has been since 2016 then there is no problem.
Since posting this thread, I’ve gotten three more alts through the class hall campaigns, about to finish a final one, all with mounts, and about to get my feat of strength. You could call me an expert on completing Legion content at this point. I don’t know where you got this idea that I’m refusing to play, cause I am, but I am also complaining about it. I know how Legion played prior to pre-patch, and asking it play similarly is a valid request as it satisfies everyone regardless of the level they start.
It played with static artifact ilvl regardless of when it was acquired and then increased ilvl by adding relics, exactly how it still works.
If you’ve played it as much as you say you have you should understand it works perfectly fine in regards to how the artifact has always interacted as well as how the pre-patch levelling changes are meant to be played.
Going to bail on the thread at this point, I’ve pointed out that they work exactly as they have for 4 years and exactly as intended, that they are perfectly sufficient to complete content with even if acquired at a high level, that other changes are a better use of resources, why scaling doesn’t make sense and makes hundreds of in game items including dungeon and quest rewards irrelevant, and that they fully make sense in context of the current levelling design.
If you fail to accept that then that is on you.
You received a level 100 artifact to do level 100 content against level 100 mobs. Relics until max level could be used to increase up to around 110. That’s why I suggested having both the artifact and the relics scale differently. So when you obtain an artifact at level 40, it is level 40, and then until level 50 the relics can scale to level 50. That actually corresponds to how it worked in Legion.
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If you got the weapon at 101, 102,…110 is was scaled to 100. It was never a scaling weapon, it still isn’t that is the same.
You are intended to play through the levelling process through an expansion, if that is Legion you get it at 10 as intended, just like if you were getting it at 100.
As to the relics, we have gone over this. They scale 20 ilvls over a whole 50 levels. How do you suggest they reduce that to compensate for a scaling artifact weapon?
5 ilvls over 50 levels?
Either way the artifact will still be scaled to account for relic growth and worse then other content rewards if it doesn’t have relics.
In chromie time it was the same. Also even before prepatch the legion weapons had better itemlevel than greens.
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The artifact didn’t scale, nor could you obtain BFA gear at level 20, or MoP gear at level 45. Everything was made to scale except for the artifact. Instead, they put the scaling on the relics, which works ok at level 10 or 20, less so at level 40 or 45.
There’s nothing saying you are intended to play through the levelling process of one expansion only from 10-50. You can switch as much as you like to vary it up. So if someone wants to do some classic, then some WoD, followed by Legion, they can do that because the mobs will scale up to a certain point, while Chromie will make them scale all the way to 50. No one “gets legion”, it’s a choice made, that can be changed when wanted.
You are effectively saying that Legion is the one expansion that you must start at level 10 and must play only that expansion until 50, just because of the artifact, even though this gear issue isn’t there in the other expansions.
As for the relics, there are various options. One option is to just get rid of them and have the artifact scale. There’s still various quest rewards that reflect artifact power that just give gold now and the same could be done for relics.
Alternatively, you have them scale to a maximum to something different that takes into account the base level of the artifact that scales. If the artifact is always the appropriate level (i.e., the same as you are), they could all just be +5, so it’s just a bonus, as it was before, so at level 50, three relics will make it be level 65.
Finally, another idea is to just keep the system as it is but let the quartermaster supply weapons for different level ranges, so you have something you can use until you obtain the needed relics.
They seem very good at just changing quest rewards, so probably the easiest would be making relics be a gold reward and just having the artifact scale. But like I said, open to other ideas that recognize higher level players are being given an artifact that isn’t appropriate for the content they are about to do in Legion.
We’re not all in Chromie time. I tried to meet a friend I partied up with (both below character 50) and we had to go to Stormwind to be in the same phase, because I was in Chromie time and they were not.
When I was not in Chromie time (whether 42 or 50) I can see the zones that stop scaling at 30, 40 & well the 45 one, I see with my lvl 50 (I don’t have a 46-49 to test that with). I prefer to put my under 49s in Chromie Time (partially, because it unlocks access quest, so I can go to that location).
When I first posted that comment, I wasn’t aware of the level caps that existed outside of Chromie time.
Perhaps more important, it was in response to a comment stating it’s done that way for people starting at level 10 or 20 in Chromie Time.
So yes, we all aren’t in Chromie time, which is a reason why I think the artifact should be given to you at an appropriate level (i.e., similar to the level when you receive it) regardless of when you start Legion.
Sure the artifact leveling through relics is a bit wonky, whether a fresh 10 or a higher level. It doesn’t actually make you at any point hit a wall, where you’re unable to level.
The experience before was you might use it, while leveling in legion, but ultimately it was just something you chucked in your bag, sold the relics, and maybe noticed it was a nice mog model or got into the mog grind. Very hit it, quit it, forget it experience. That’s sad, considering it was originally a 2 year grind of ever increasing legendary power. I’d like to experience a 10-50 more like the original real legion artifact experience, in Chromie Time.
The artifact isn’t an heirloom weapon. Those already exist, if that’s the experience you want. I’m ok with the artifact not being a heirloom clone relegating one to heirloom boredom, even though their utility is great. What would be the point? It is a legendary weapon; It doesn’t have to be docile and easy to master. There’s nothing stopping you from using an heirloom or any of the other alternative people have mentioned, until you’ve upgraded your artifact.
I was adventuring with my mining pick, then came across this cool old weapon, but my mining pick was better. I was struggling, but where there’s a will, there’s a way. I had a hard time wielding this unusual weapon. I just wouldn’t give up on it. I could feel the potential. I gave it the love and maintenance. The tales I could tell of getting some interesting upgrades. Now, you see my [legendary weapon’s name] here. These other adventurers may be equally seasoned, but they could only dream of a weapon of this quality and ability. It’s more interesting to overcome a challenge and come out the other side with a story. That legendary weapon that at that point really is better than the weapon(s) resulting from the route chosen by a different Chromie choices. Ok, so someone could else could make that into a much better story, but it was too long, as it was. The point was, one can complain about the minor inconveniences in the early going or one can shift their perspective and see the adventure, proclaim themselves a more hardened adventurer for not taking the easy path and ultimately appreciate the reward of a maxed out artifact at level 50.
As much as you don’t like the artifact - it’s still even in this state a selling point for leveling in legion (along with the invasions, etc.). This isn’t just my pov - it’s on the major sites recommending it for leveling. You don’t have to care about weapon RNG, cuz you’ll have one. Relics aren’t RNG, either. It’ll handily be +15-20 ilvl higher than an heirloom or the other fresh 50s. Yes, I know invasions and other time economies are other legion selling points. Legion is still faster than BFA, even if you decided you preferred to go there.
In BFA the professions lvl imbalance are even more of an issue.
So I’m very confused, what the heck is going on with Legion Artifact weapons? I was on my paladin who was 50 prior to the pre-patch, and Pawn was showing that my Artifact weapon was better. I check and it’s iLvL 69 and my heirloom weapon I still have equipped (parked it after dinging 50) is 58. WTF? I checked my other paladins, one is 20 and one is 51. I see that it’s based on the artifacts I slap into the weapons, but is this really intended? This just feels BROKEN!
Your feelings are basically the reason I created this thread and have continued to advocate it be changed.
Briefly, all artifacts are now level 20, and any additional levels comes from the relics you have in it. Even if are level 40, 45, or 50, it is level 20 until you are able to collect and place relics in it.
Above, I have discussed possible changes, and argued with those who think it’s perfectly. Myself, like you, I agree that:
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So put relics in it.
Why is a legion item (you know the level 40-45 zone) able to be used at 50 (I managed to find one of my alts who had a artifact weapon at iLvL 84 due to the relics in it prior to the pre-patch)? Yes, you can only get it to iLvL 68 I believe now, but even that’s 10 iLvL’s higher than your heirlooms max out. Feels very broken.
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