It’s why I said incap into stun was good. Unfortunately our stuns don’t have anywhere near the same uptime as rogue either, lol.
But yeah, dude’s wrong about a bunch and functionally retarded. It’s why he’s not spouting this stupid “waaaaahhhh the hunt hard counters RMX at 2.7k” on the arena forums.
Our incap->stun lasts about as long as 1 20s CD kidney shot
P much. They’re non-DR’ing, but like… it means so little comparatively when our kit is so barebones compared to a rogue.
One’s not a hard CC and will break on damage until you pick up a pvp talent and once you do that you can’t damage someone in it. An incap is also not a stun and many classes have multiple forms of CC that don’t DR.
Oh, I thought ‘hard cc’ meant like full inability to control your character and ‘soft cc’ are things like root/snare where you can technically still do stuff through the cc.
This guy again dude LOL I’m having flash backs
It’s round 2 this time LOL
What??? O let’s kill DH pvp no problem…
At 220item level, 28%versa, in a bg team, with demonic and soul rending.
Damage is around 2100 dps. With 25%leech from would rending is 525 heals per second. For 6 seconds 3,150. I have like 38k hp. How that any help? And only for 6 seconds if i never got cc.
DH can’t survive in pvp at all!!! Doesn’t have the self heal that other classes, the damage not defensives. Paladin can self heal instant after 3 holy powers(their version of combo points) and like 4 shields. Shaman also can insta self heal with 5malesteom that is super easy to get. Warrior and dk can self heal 30% every 30seconds. Plus ignore pain and dk with shields. Warlocks mages and priests initial shields and very good. Rogues bean self heal, vanish, 100%dodge. Etc… Most of the. Other classes even been range have better defensives as base line.
And out don’t get extra benefits from leech of the gear in pvp? Then what’s the point of gearing for pvp with the best that you can?
And special if the DH can only use leech!!!
It’s actually amazing just how much of this is wrong or severely exaggerated…
yup. but it’s been like that since before shadowlands.
yeah DH damage mitigation complete bad.
I do provide valid information. Number with statistical values. Don’t want to sound mean, but from an account that is not max level. And with that little information in the comment is hard to take in consideration. Shaman have insta heal with 5 maleatrom. Heals on demand, as paladins with 3 holy powers(combo points in paladin class)
The defense of a DH is blur a 50% chance to be hit. For 10secs, compare to any other defensive like rogue evasion been 100%, paladins behave 4 shields dk and warrior self heal instant with one skill.
Were the DH get 3500hp over 6 seconds vs instant 30%hp heals.
Please make a valid case. Before posting.
And are oom after 4 - 5 heals.
Which means they aren’t using those three points for damage.
This is both wrong and dumb.
Death strike is severely nerfed in pvp.It barely moves a health bar, and also requires runic power, so it isn’t free. Warrior self-healing requires either previously getting a killing blow, or taking a talent that no serious pvp player takes. So again, dumb.
As you keep insulting, and still not really bringing any valuable debate to the conversation. Well …
I guess not addressing the points I made are one way to go…Please list out the 4 shields Paladins have, and how they use them all in anything but a 20 minute arena match. Also, please tell me how warriors heal in one button without landing a killing blow on something already, or taking a talent that no serious pvp player takes. And while you’re at it, go ask Mez or any serious pvp DK just how bad death strike really is…
I’ll wait…
Yea no ds is gone as far as healing for pvp. If I remember correctly its a lichborne/death coil combo.
Lich born turns the dk undead. Then they spam their runic power on death coil which heals friendly undead. Also lich borne gives them an extra 10% leech.
If you want self healing in pvp use the Collective Anguish Legendary. The Fel Devastation of your allied Dh counts as your own cast and heals you for quite a substantial amount. Just make sure you aim it right and hit an enemy with it.
Tertiary rolls on gear have never worked in pvp and they shouldn’t. We do not want RNG gearing BS influencing pvp in that way. Someone with the RNG of the gods and leech on every piece of gear would have 25% more leech than someone who doesn’t. No.
As for people debating on The Hunt carrying or not. It can Carry, but not for the reasons I’ve seen here. The reason Hunt can carry you in arena is because you can bait out defensives with it with absolutely no cost to you with a simple cast cancel macro. That kind of power to outplay your opponent cannot be understated. No other class in the game has a threat that big that can regularly bait out defensives for absolutely no resources used on your side. Use that right and you will find yourself winning a lot more often. If you are opening with the hunt at the start of the match, you deserve to lose.
what’s the point of gearing for pvp if certain attribute wont work(enchanting the cape for example), speed and other terciary does work (as my understanding) while leech seems is the only one doesn’t, is strange since DH is the only one that survive base on leech.
Classes are affected differently by the attributes, if 2 classes have 100 leech points not the 2 classes will be affected the same.
Demon Hunter survival depends on the leech. so not having access to it(yes the only way is having is by soul rending, and demonic, you cant decouple those 2) been talents, is disappointing, a class that only have 1 spec, and that the talents are so strict there is not room to play different builds.
thanks for the tip on the legendary Collective Anguish but we still into the same problem, where a DH class needs borrow power to survive. as this point, for DH there is only one build. and 2 legendries for pvp =(. with out the Hunt DH cant kill anything. and i don’t thing making it a dot will make more damage since can be remove. plus now unbound chaos is 500% instead 600%. so removing the extra 40% from the soul bind and 100% of the unbound chaos, DH is been nerfed even more =(…
FIX DH SURVIVAL! we are not asking for new pvp talents.
Cape enchants actually do work regardless of what type of enchant it is, speed, leech, avoidance. Socket gems that give these attributes also would work, as would any other enchants, but the only gems/other enchants that are available right now that give tertiaries are the speed gems.
Not all classes Should be the same, but the secondary/tertiary stats thing you mentioned is patently untrue for anything other than mastery.
I’d actually argue that demon hunter survivability is more tied to using mobility correctly than our leech, at least when we have a healer. Knowing when to kite and keep distance to wait out enemy CDs is valuable. You Are correct in that Soul Rending without Demonic may as well not exist, but there are definitely matchups cough mage rogue cough where Netherwalk is the choice over Soul Rending.
Borrowed Power is annoying, but Blizzard have already said that they agree with us on that. Hopefully they follow through on what they’ve said on that matter.
We can absolutely kill without the Hunt, our constant pressure is actually pretty high. The Hunt’s DOT cannot be removed without using a total immunity.
The conduit change is actually kind of more complicated than people are giving it credit. First off, the Hunt Base tooltip of 455%AP + 227.7%AP DOT is a straight up LIE! IT Should be 455%AP + 303.6% AP! It’s very easy to test this, just go to any target dummy and use the hunt. You will have 4 ticks for 75.9%AP and one partial tick from haste at the end. If the dot behaved as the tooltip says we should only have 3 full power ticks for 75.9% AP and the partial haste tick, adding to the listed 227.7% AP total. The actual in game tooltip reflects this and has this extra tick accounted for, so I’m unsure why the database tooltip is missing this. It’s misleading.
Also, No one seems to be taking the fact that the Hunt’s Dot is, well, a DOT. It scales with HASTE unlike the initial hit, giving an additional multiplier for the 9.1 conduit to work with.
So the formula for The Hunt damage in 9.0.5 would be:
(455% AP)x(1+(Conduit%/100))x((1+(Vers%/100))x(1+(HavocMOD%/100)) Initial Hit + (4x(75.6% AP)x((1+(Vers%/100))x(1+(HavocMOD%/100))) + (3x(75.6% AP)x((1+(Vers%/100))x(1+(HavocMOD%/100))x(Haste%/100)) dot damage per target hit.
Changed in 9.1 to:
(455% AP)x((1+(Vers%/100))x(1+(HavocMOD%/100)) Initial Hit + (4x(75.6% AP)x(1+(Conduit%/100))x((1+(Vers%/100))x(1+(HavocMOD%/100))) + (3x(75.6% AP)x(1+(Conduit%/100))x((1+(Vers%/100))x(1+(HavocMOD%/100))x(Haste%/100)) dot damage per target hit.
What does this actually mean?
So my DH has 1300 agility and 46.1538 weapon damage, meaning my actual AP is 1576.9231. For those who don’t know, weapon dps is multiplied by 6 and added to Agility to find your ability AP. I also have 32.00% vers and 17.15% haste. The HavocMOD at time of writing this is 8%. Plugging that into the formula…
213 conduit (37.5% hunt damage):
9.0.5 damage: 14,064 damage Hit + 7703 DOT
9.1 damage: 10,229 damage Hit + 10,592 DOT
We do lose a bit of damage on a single target hunt, but:
Targets____9.0.5 Damage_____9.1 Damage
____1_________21,767____________20,821
____2_________29,470____________31,413
____3_________37,173____________42,005
____4_________44,876____________52,597
____5_________52,579____________63,189
At even 2 targets hit with the dot, the total damage is higher than it is in 9.0.5. This disparity would decrease even more, or even be overturned by having more haste! All of these calculations ignore the 50% reduced effect of our conduit in PvP as well as any procs, debuffs, or the two piece pvp trinket set effect.
No terciary stat are working in pvp 
so there is no way to enhance the amount of heals we get. Compare to other classes that can look for buffing their main attribute. This hits DH extremely hard, way more than other classes since this is the only way of self healing
This is one of the things that is so so bad! There is no info as any of this in game , so how a player knows this? Or find about certain skills have different value in pvp. Tool tip should show all Info. As values in pve, in pvp. And what modify what…
And is good to remove gossip of what things change or not.
Tertiary random rolls not working on DH hurts us as much as it hurts anyone else. If tertiary random rolls worked for us, they would also work for every other class too.
I do agree that there should be some indication of PvP differences in skills and conduits displayed ingame.