Layering is ruining beta

Sarrinda-tichondrius · May 31, 2019, 2:34pm

The struggle to just get the Kobold Vermin in the stress test… and people want them to REMOVE layering (Which is only temporary)? WoW has a much bigger player base now than it did back then. More people will be logging in now to try it out, compared to back then. So it won’t be like Classic Launch was… it would be so much worse! These tests are to find ways to fix issues such as layer-hopping and server crashing.

Sarrinda-tichondrius · May 31, 2019, 2:37pm

To be honest, I feel that most of the “cons” people come up with against layering is Vanilla Elitism at play. “It was not a thing back then so it must not be a thing now, even though player attitudes have changed and the sheer amount of people who will play at launch are much greater now than 2004!”

Brockthorn-malygos · May 31, 2019, 2:45pm

I’m against layering because of things like what happened in stress test…events happening and you can’t participate or see because you are in the “wrong layer”

Fobnop-turalyon · May 31, 2019, 2:47pm

Agree, I don’t like what I see so far. A streamer had organized a massive Horde vs Alliance PvP fight and each group had over a hundred players, but they ended up in different layers and passed each other on the road and could not see each other. I mean WTH is that? No, deal breaker. It has to go now.

Gildena-magtheridon · May 31, 2019, 3:10pm

Then wait until layering is gone.

I don’t expect many will be trying to do this sort of thing at launch. The reason it was a thing in the stress test was because of the level cap.

Fobnop-turalyon · May 31, 2019, 3:14pm

I just might. I hate sharding (this is similar) with a passion. Just for fun I logged into the game yesterday and made a toon on a high pop server. I saw NO ONE in the starting zone, not one other player. So I went out to the surrounding areas, no one. So I headed to Org. Three players, in Org, three. Where the heck was everyone? Probably in another shard. I logged out. When I log in to see an empty world then I’m so done. If I wanted to play a single player game I would. Don’t cut me off from other players. Logging out.

Valdro-steamwheedle-cartel · May 31, 2019, 3:17pm

Layering is a technical feature necessary in order to accommodate the influx of new players. It is going away after the initial drop off of players.

Shovelgirl-proudmoore · May 31, 2019, 3:32pm

Vanilla didn’t need layering because the most #NoChanges way to release classic would be to go by Timezone. Eastcoast got to play WoW before anyone else, then Texans and such, then Californians and other westworlders.

Keep it this way, it’s authentic and it’s better than layering.

Gildena-magtheridon · May 31, 2019, 3:42pm

You’re forgetting that servers where based on time zones in vanilla(I think they still are actually). Thus most players on an individual server where in the same timezone, thus that doens’t help.

It also had the neat effect of having the sun match your real timezone ingame(reasonably closely).

Brockthorn-malygos · May 31, 2019, 3:44pm

I decided that I am waiting. I also hated sharding with a passion and one of the reasons I left.
I don’t want that to happen with classic so I’m going to wait.

Heidene-kelthuzad · May 31, 2019, 4:43pm

I’m not sure you understand the type of people who wanted and made this game a possibility in the first place, and what you are asking of them here.

Are you’re aware of how difficult it was to convince Blizzard to release Classic? For years and years the fans of vanilla, as a community, kept on bringing it up, regardless of very strong resistance from both Blizzard AND the more modern player community of later versions of WoW who laughed at them every chance they got?

Cause that’s not bad enough for them, they straight up got the now infamous “you think you do, but you don’t” at Blizzcon, again, failing. All they wanted was vanilla, not more, not less.
They knew the game was so awesome that they just kept on asking for it anyway. They made a huge comeback with a certain server community and a former lead vanilla Blizzard dev himself delivering in mass amounts of petitions to Blizzards office, to show the huge demand from that community for this game. The combined amount of time and effort was IMMENSE.

Finally Blizzard decided it was worth it, and we’re getting Classic because of that particular vanilla community and their immense persistence and belief in the game’s quality. And because of our divine Omar, bless his heart, who ressurected the game back from the depths, whereas Blizzard thought the necessary data was lost.

TL;DR:
The Vanilla Community who wanted to play, and pay for the very game they fought years and years to make happen, want to do literally nothing else but to play that (!!) same game (!!) again when classic releases.
Both in it’s good times, and bad times. And they damn well deserve it. They know what’s coming and they want it all. (except burning servers which can’t happen anymore 15 years later, with far superior tech that Blizz stated is absolutely capable this time around)
Launch is a short spectacle altogether anyway, but the weeks and months following it are so important to each server’s community, and that should not be compromised on! Is it perfect? No. That’s just wishful thinking. What matters is it’s Vanilla they’d get, and that’s how it should be.

So? Tell me.
Why should the OG Vanilla Community who fought for this wait weeks or months to get their version, the most original Vanilla of all possible in 2019? They’ve waited and struggled for it the longest out of anyone BY FAR!
They’re the ones that will stay and be dedicated to Classic and they’ll pay as long as they get the game they wanted. Tourists… well the word explains itself. Although i’m hopeful that many will stay, layering or not.
But to prefer to just bathe in tourist cash, instead of committing as much to the Vanilla crowd as they have committed to make this game an experience for everyone to partake in in 2019, seems really wrong. These players gave up private servers to instead pay Blizzard for it’s boutique quality. Come on!

And even Blizzard said it’s for the OG Vanilla community first and foremost. Even if they aren’t on point with that right now, that’s the goal, and most important box they got to tick if they wanna stick to their plan for what Classic is supposed to be.
If they do succeed and tick that box, i’m sorry in advance for any inconveniences you might experience going forward. But don’t worry, there’s alternatives in case your hasty spirit can’t handle to allow yourself to be part of the big opportunity for the most epic MMORPG experience in history to unfold during this time and the first months in.

Garilas-emerald-dream · May 31, 2019, 4:45pm

a/k/a software development occurred.

Valdro-steamwheedle-cartel · May 31, 2019, 4:53pm

Why are people so upset over a temporary feature of the server setup?

Brockthorn-malygos · May 31, 2019, 5:03pm

Because they want it gone on launch day so they can play day 1.

Me, I’m gonna wait because I want to play wow with no layers more than I want to play wow on day 1.

Gildena-magtheridon · May 31, 2019, 5:03pm

Because we should want this project to have it’s best chance to succeed, while still delivering vanilla.

First impressions are very important, and the hype around classic will be highest at launch. Meaning, this is the time most who have not tried it, will give it a go. If they have a bad experience (can’t play the game because it’s too crowded); that’s likely to lose people.

This doesn’t prevent anyone from getting a vanilla wow, it’s temporary.

Brockthorn-malygos · May 31, 2019, 5:04pm

If there are as many retail tourists as they say there will be then they will have no issues because they are used to sharding already.

Raypugh-kiljaeden · May 31, 2019, 5:05pm

20 seconds*

Deathrament-area-52 · May 31, 2019, 5:10pm

Without layering it would be a disaster.

Heidene-kelthuzad · May 31, 2019, 5:49pm

I agree. But the question is, which approach is actually more likely to be successful in the eyes of Blizzard? What outcome would they define as success from a game design standpoint? The most amount of money made? The most players aquired? Well… thankfully they’ve a set of announced values they try to stick to that make that clear.
h ttps://imgur.com/a/ChhciYu

Note here: they are also stating that you’ll experience the ability to have player interactions just as authentically as back then. With layering in place, that doesn’t hold true though, because of changing layers with grouping up, not seeing other people in the same area if they are on another layer, etc.

Given all statements from this post and interviews with the devs, success for the Classic team means they deliver the most authentic vanilla game possible to it’s core audience, the longtime fans who’ve been there since the start.
That means as well, that losing those who just want to check it out, but would cave in after a very short time of inconveniences, dropping the game, are not those that really matter for Classics success. They are a bonus.
Especially if they buckle up for the biggest MMORPG launch, and embrace what’s to come, joining the community of fans. Awesome! However, not ultimately necessary for Classic’s success in Blizzards own statements.

Here’s the thing though. Vanilla WoW is technically a game, yes. But the whole experience of it, that makes up the whole game, is one of a journey. A journey has a beginning, and an end. If you want people to fully experience that journey, you let people experience both the beginning, and the end of it, otherwise it ruins the authenticity.
Layering messes with the beginning experience of a journey, as the unavoidable side effects of it will ruin immersion as you see the cogs working behind the machine. And you’re part of that machine. There goes the beginning part of the journey. It’s not Vanilla.

Vanilla WoW has the game foundations necessary to provide the experience people want, start to finish. Modern tech can take care of initial struggles without interfering with the journey in the game itself. Even with past struggles, it became the most successfull MMORPG ever, including TBC and WotLK, both of which had no layering or anything like it at any point, yet still receiving praise left and right.
People know what to expect with an MMORPG launch this big. If they don’t, that’s on them being ill informed.

Once you’re in Azeroth, you should be in Azeroth. No Puppet Master pulling the strings. There is one world, and you’re in it. Now handle it. That’s vanilla.
Not parallel timeline worlds you can change around at will, or get changed around without initiating it yourself (because layers are not static, they are dynamic. Therefore you will be shuffled around automatically when the layers overall population needs demand it).

Belaydia-dalaran · May 31, 2019, 5:52pm

Why are we using layering instead of actual servers for the layers? Well, it’s to accommodate tourists.

Here’s what I don’t understand.

What if they decide that 4 layers per server is the ideal, but then instead of 75% of players leaving in a month only 50% leave? Will that server permanently be layered (with 2)?

Also, there is this concept that the game will lose tourists in the first month, but maybe, just maybe (this is crazy I know), the game may add a few players here and there over the next year or two. Let’s say more than 10. It’s possible. What about then?

I mean, it’s like the devs have this doom and gloom perspective of the tourists – what if that doesn’t take place? Does this mean that layering will be permanent?