What are you talking about??? Seriously…
Paladins ONLY lost Crusader’s Reprieve. Otherwise we still have our range attacks.
Although I largely agree, I suppose it all depends on one’s definition of “harmful.” I myself get tired of people trying to gimp my class just because it doesn’t match up with their definition of what a class should be.
This is my very argument.
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I am passionate about Ret and to a slightly lesser degree Protection Paladin. I want it to perform exceptionally and be fun. Maybe I want Ret to be too strong or too versatile. An old Paladin can dream.
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HAH! Don’t we all.
I’m dreamin’ wit’ ya, brother.
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2 charges of steed + 90% of our rotation (even after nerfs) being done from range is not what I would call limited mobility.
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dont say that, don’t bring loigic here
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Ret hate has mindbroken people like this guy conflating range attacks with having mobility.
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Don’t forget about the sprint with BoF. Ret Paladin mobility is much better than people give it credit for, and almost the entire rotation being maintainable from 20 yards away gives them a massive advantage over other melee.
I honestly don’t get the complaints. When I’m on my paladin I feel unstoppable. Mechanics are just suggestions. Downtime? Pfft, nope.
I always enjoy your posts.
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To clear up confusion and use a better word, what I am referring to is Ret/Paladin maneuverability. I specifically am also referring to an instant gap closer as well.
I am also in the camp that ranged attacks are not mobility. But again, I want to stress the better word here as maneuverability.
Ultimately, anytime I speak on Ret/Paladin maneuverability, I’m speaking in terms of PvP. Surely the current toolkit is great in PvE, but in PvP, the combat dynamic is much different. Especially in rated arenas at a very high rating level.
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This is a fair assessment.
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Just to cover my bases, this is my alt warrior from Luthorion. This is now my main character as I’m not a massive fan of playing my Ret anymore in high rated PvP content. The spec is of course good I just personally have moved away from the class in general as I don’t like the some of the design directions.
But nevertheless, I still do play high rated arenas often just on another character!
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TRAITOR!! Get thee hence from this Holy Light forum.
(just kidding)
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What? You do know there’s an official class description, right?
Paragons of Justice
This is the call of the paladin: to protect the weak, to bring justice to the unjust, and to vanquish evil from the darkest corners of the world. These holy warriors are equipped with plate armor so they can confront the toughest of foes, and the blessing of the Light allows them to heal wounds and, in some cases, even restore life to the dead
Class Information
Paladins stand directly in front of their enemies, relying on heavy armor and healing in order to survive incoming attacks. Whether with massive shields or crushing two-handed weapons, Paladins are able to keep claws and swords from their weaker fellows – or they use healing magic to ensure that they remain on their feet.
Holy Warriors that stand directly in front of our enemies is our official World of Warcraft Class description.
Ontop of that, there’s a level of cooperation between the developer and the client(s), this is why Feedback Posts exists. This isn’t just Blizzard’s game, it’s all of ours collectively.
That’s why, while I understand the breadwinner for WoW right now is Mythic+ and the game has to cater to that end game pillar to a large degree… its still no excuse for whoever is in charge of the Paladin development to have such a shortsighted vision for the class.
(Even stated in Bolas’ WoWhead post)
Removing things like Crusader’s Reprieve, Ret Aura, WoA Snare, the freedom and skill cap of using Consecration in PvP, etc… shows a lack of consideration for World of Warcraft as a whole.
Including, whether you like it or not, Class Fantasy.
Now this isn’t to bash the developers, but to hold them to Blizzard’s Standards of quality work. If Blizzard’s official Class Description is stating Paladins are indeed “Holy Warriors that stand directly in front of their enemies” and that does not feel like it’s being accurately portrayed, we have every right to call them out on it. =/
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Yeah, no. It’s NOT “our” game. It’s Blizzard’s game. They may hear our concerns (perhaps) but that’s it. THEY make the rules, not us. We play THEIR game. And if we don’t like it, the we take our money elsewhere and play ANOTHER game.
To think otherwise is simply delusional.
I mean, there is a certain cultural idea behind the paladin in a fantasy setting that Blizz uses to fuel it’s own design.
They neither invented what it is nor do they alone define what it is.
The general idea being that they are pious warriors (the cause can be flexible) that strive for righteousness and order.
After that, the more common interpretation in a fantasy settings sets them to be “holy” knights associating them strongly with the “light” and with the dominant religion which is, more often than not, a simulacrum of “Christianity”.
From there on out, Blizz can kind of take the liberties they want with their own vision of a paladin, it’s their game after all.
But they still kind of have soft limits on what they can call a paladin.
Now that being said, I agree with you and don’t think “range” on their abilities or strike kind of matters all that much as long as they respect the more core aspects.
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Exactly my point!!!
Boo-Ya!!! Drop da mic.
Not only are you handsome for a Tauren, you must be some kind of genius as well.
I’m a very perceptive guy on these things. 
It does matter. paladins in every media aspect is generally a front line melee fighter. They are not traditionally ranged fighters. Even blizz’s description on paladins reflects that.
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See it this way, paladins still have to be in the front lines. cstrikes, Templar strikes, art of war, require melee range.
Our range abilities and jurisdiction is a utility perk that prevents our enemies from easily escaping our JUSTICE.
I mean we do use magic, magic is typically ranged in nature.
Not every paladin in other media uses magic and are more just depicted as religious warriors.
But ultimately we need to be in melee to be fully optimal.
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But that’s the issue. More so from a PvP Perspective than PvE, but paladins don’t have the tools required to be in the front lines. If you want us in the front lines, we should have the tools and the means to be, and stay there.
Again, from a PvP perspective, because we don’t have the snares, the gap closers, the CC, etc… to consistently be within melee, Blizzard really shouldn’t hold us to the same standards as “melee.”
And if the response is “Paladin’s aren’t melee, they are mid range…”
We are revisiting increased melee range talents across the game. These talents make the melee experience inconsistent across classes in a way we’re not happy with, so we’re removing most of them.
The “melee experience” shouldn’t include Paladins if we are mid range. We shouldn’t lose Crusader’s Reprieve, because that’s not us, we’re not melee, right?
Paladins are a mid-range class, but still have to abide by the rules of melee? Why?
Default melee range has increased since these talents were originally created, allowing specs with increased range to attack from well outside where it appears they should be able to.
In addition, “range to attack from well outside where it appears they should be able to.” is in reference to the visuals and effects of our abilities.
Again, if we are Mid Range, then make our abilities appear that they have range on them and not like the Paladin is swinging at air. : )
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Who would havr thought
They increased eveeyones hp by 60% yet the buffs to flaah of light and wog dont ever come close to overwriting it.
Nice “selfsustain” update.
Dusk was nerfed too lmfao.
Divine protection still 10% wall i. Pvp
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