Proudmoore is the unofficial lgbt realm. I’m suggesting and official lgbt/alternative realm.
I wasn’t referring to blizzards rules, but the lgbt/alternative communities “rules”. It seems now that there’s even growing discontent within those communities because what’s socially acceptable or what’s becoming “wrong-speech” is changing so fast, that even many within those communities can’t keep up with the newest groups that are coming into and under the umbrella of lgbt.
So by creating an official alternative realm, everyone who enters will know ahead of time what they’re getting involved with and also won’t become a growing distraction for those who come to Azeroth to get away from RL’s ever changing cultural landscape
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Well that’s only provided if that “some step” is something that everybody in that group agrees with or actually make things better or natural. And personally, if i were elected to represent people, i would be sure there be no tokenism and just have it be all natural.
And i don’t think he particularly cares to find out…
What you’ve put up with doesn’t justify inequality or not listening what other peers in your group have to say. You’re not the only one, nor elected to speak on their behalf.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-14/
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
I don’t know Zas, it seems to cover all the bases it needs… 
But i guess what are the suggestions of expanding the 14th amendment then?.. 
…Can you explain that or?..
Sure, but don’t you consider the fact that this is 2022?.. That we know a lot more about representing people correctly then this?..
…Cringey is an understatement… but to go along with this… i think it’s better to maybe listen to your peers on this on what they think.
How is asking real people close minded?..
I’m not going to feign positivity like you and Tulln have, I think this tool is honestly silly and i much rather they ask real people about their character ideas because it gives a much better idea for how to represent people.
…Yeah how dare i ask for natural integration. /s 
…This is Activision-Blizzard … Who is also with Microsoft.
How can you sit there and think it’s not possible?..
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look closer you will see all the far leftists idology in it race,gender and you can bet sexuality.
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I think they are referring to the progression of letters added to LGBTQIA over recent years, focus on microaggression, etc. Some people are legitimately afraid of being attacked if they make an unintentional error and offend someone.
I personally do not worry too much about it. I try to respect people’s preferences and apologize if I forget. However, when someone blows up at me for saying “Thank you, ma’am” I either laugh at them or go silent and leave depending on mood. There are some things that will just always wander back into my lexicon due to upbringing.
…So you don’t want them to listen and improve?.. Because that’s how they improve their game…by listening their players.
Not tokenizing isn’t “Trying to appeal to everyone”.
And how that worked out for Shadowlands?..
…Okay so you don’t care about representation then.
False dichotomy fallacy.
The alternative would be asking … Gasp. Real people. 
And i think a lot of us, even some of the LGBT people would like more of that.
That is not what you’ve said here Tulln. 
Give me links to said “facts” and i’l read it.
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If you are really for what you say are then the Blizzard Diversity tool should horrify you.
The other day when i looked up what a Diversity Tool is i found an article that talks specifically about the one Blizzard is going to use. Apparently is has quite a few negative stereotypes in it. So Blizzard is going to be diverse by using a tool that has negative stereotypes in it?
You would think Blizzard would make sure it was A-OK before they actually use it but Blizzard does not have a good history of doing that…
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How? No sarcasm. What is your method to insure that nobody feels tokenized?
The natural post civil war behavior in the Southern States was to deprive freed slaves of rights. Repugnant, but natural that they attempt to preserve the status quo they preferred. The 14th forced them to change course. The following Civil Rights protections expanded upon what on its face seems it should have been enough. I feel that we need more.
Do we? What is correct? What is “correct” for you is not of necessity “correct” to me. I would grant that we are as a society far more aware of the feelings of otherness of not us groups. (All uses of us, we, etc are general not specific.) That does not mean that people know better how to retrain their lifetime attitudes and ingrained actions and language and feelings to a new and hopefully higher standard of understanding and acceptance.
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Most people are fine with that. Mistakes are normal, and sometimes old phrases exist. I get called “dude” pretty often. Whatever.
That is not really something that is likely to be realistic. If I address you as “sir” and you are not, and you report me, nothing will happen. the mods just see me say “sir”. They don’t know anything more. No profanity, insults, slurs, etc. Now, if you correct me and I start making fun of you and doing it on purpose that might be a different story but that would not be accidental.
There is no Blizzard Diversity tool. You are talking about the character tool that King Games made starting in 2016. It is in prototype now.
I don’t disagree with your take on this, I am merely explaining that it wasn’t changes to the ToS EULA CoC the other poster was referring to. What could be considered offensive is constantly evolving and with the advent of social media, those changes come faster and faster. It may not actually be a problem, but the perception that it could be may have a quelling effect on some people’s comfort and confidence in communication.
This. My suggestion about an official realm for alternative communities was based strictly on the comfort and ease of those individuals belonging to these alternative groups.
As being an individual that is currently not a part of any alternative communities, I don’t go out of my way to stay up to date with the changing vocabularies.
Alternative communities seem to be in a perpetual state of educating and “correcting” others about their lifestyles, that it’s seems not only distracting to them, but distracting to those being taught.
The suggestion about an alternative realm was nothing about dislike or hate, but more of an idea of a realm being about bringing the forums to the game, for those that want to learn and teach about alternative lifestyles.
For those not interested, they can stay in traditional realms and not be distracted with such topics.
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Tbh it’s one of those things where the more you try to broadcast it, the more people will feel put off, and the more you try to rectify the situation, the more upset people get. It’s quicksand.
To me, the entire point of fantasy and fictional stories, shows, movies, and entertainment in general, is to allow people to engage in a fantasy. It’s entire validity hinges on suspension of disbelief. You put something out there, and let them interact and play with it in the way they want to because the end goal is to have them feel involved in the world in their own way.
They don’t need to know the inner mechanics of how the fantasy is created e.g. characterization, storyboarding, interviews, focus groups, stage lights, sound systems, word usage, script writing or the representation that you want to include. The people who are interested will look for and study these things themselves.
The vast majority of people just want to enjoy something and feel some sort of emotional connection to the story. So in a way, them knowing this kind of things exists further disengages them from the fantasy because the very authentic experience that they want to experience is being questioned.
It’s like how a magician never reveal their secrets. Once you know how the trick works, you can’t enjoy it for what it is anymore.
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Discussions and Feedback with the people i’m representing with.
… Fair enough i suspose?..
…You know, in that time you spent putting what i think is correct in quotes… have you not considered that’s the feeling is mutual among your peers and you shouldn’t dismiss that easily because it’s a minority of people who felt that way?..
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This has become a circular argument. It works both ways.
By avoiding the tokenizing of those you represent with (awkward syntax but I think you adequately communicated), you may unintentionally tokenize someone else’s identity. What if the people you represent with do not agree 100% with each other? Do you compromise?
When you are dealing with an incredible diversity of unique individuals and perceptions, it is practically impossible to avoid someone feeling left out, marginalized, etc.
My point is that you make declarations that someone else is doing it wrong, but the only solution you can offer is just do it right. That isn’t really how people work. Effort and intent should be respected and embraced and built upon.
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Fair point, though i’m not entirely sure how tokenizing can be accidental since putting in characters require conscious effort and thought. But for the sake of this argument here, i can agree that will accidentally happen from time to time. The difference being is when you purposely do it.
That’s inevitable to happen to any medium created, or any team working on the said medium, and in a lot of cases that’s fine. Because people then to focus on the end result rather then the people behind it.
If it’s a good product, they will like it for it’s merits.
If it’s a bad product, they will hate it for it’s merits too.
A lot of the times, people liking or hating something others created always, if not, most of the time, has nothing to do with people being a certain identity.
This goes both ways with you and Tulln making declarations that something is doing it right too.
My solution, which was said over and over, is to ask real people who are in that group of that character you’re writing. If i’m writing a lesbian character for example, i would ask lesbians what they think.
That’s why people don’t want it to be undermined with this tool or any representation that doesn’t come from a genuine place.
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If you think all lesbians as an example would agree on something you are absolutely stereotyping.
I don’t know about him, but I haven’t declared they are doing it right, merely that trying to do anything at all should be respected and encouraged rather than instantly raged at for not being enough or the right thing.
Anywho, nice talking with you, but I think I should sleep at a reasonablish hour tonight.
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Where i’ve said they agreed on something in that example?..
Well, count your blessings.
Nobody is under an obligation to respect what they do. People should give whatever opinion they give to whatever they feel is appropriate.
And while i don’t agree with being extremely angry at it, it does make me annoyed that Activision can’t just ask real people and instead use this tool. I mean they are spending money on an AI that makes diverse characters for them… clearly they have the resources to ask people…
At least that’s what i would do if i’m in their shoes.
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Timely reminder : Bobby Kotick has an over $22 million bonus riding on if ATVI has -
Made appropriate progress toward the achievement of the transformational gender-related goals and other commitments described in Activision Blizzard’s press release on October 28, 2021 (e.g., launching new zero-tolerance harassment policy, increasing the percentage of women and non-binary people in Activision Blizzard’s workforce by 50%, investing $250,000,000 to accelerate opportunities for diverse talent, waiving arbitration of individual sexual harassment claims and increasing visibility on pay equity) (as defined by the Workplace Responsibility Committee ) Source
Say what you will about the Tool. You can’t deny that a very highly paid executive has a bonus riding on implementing this sort of thing. Expect more of the same in the future.
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Most corporatish thing I have ever seen 
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Too bad if Bobby Kotick doesn’t get his bonus, he surely doesn’t need any more yachts lol
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