There is
15 minutes wasn’t enough to curb the behavior. 15 minutes that isn’t even actually 15 minutes in fact because it starts counting down when the queue goes through, not when you’re removed from the dungeon
15 minutes is 15 minutes, it doesn’t magically become fewer minutes just because it took longer to get kicked. It’s still 15 minutes where you can’t queue for a dungeon.
of course it doesn’t “magically” become fewer minutes. it’s programming, not magic
Right, so we both agree that 15 min = 15 min.
So this statement
…is incorrect.
Well that sure went way over your head
You really don’t know what that 15 minute timer is, huh? It’s not even technically a “punishment”, it’s built in to avoid clogging the instance servers by repeatedly opening new instances. It’s the same reason why you can only run 5 instances within one hour. The timer starts counting down when the instance is created, not when you’re removed from it. You can literally look at it yourself when you begin a new dungeon and go to the specific dungeon list. If you leave the dungeon 5 minutes after it begins then the timer will be at 10 minutes remaining
I suggest in the future you understand what you’re actually talking about
Curbed behavior huh?
You created a whole new kind of bad behavior with this policy that I argue is worse than a tank not wanting to run a specific dungeon.
So… your bad arguments clearly aren’t about curbing behavior because they’re not doing anything to combat the grief-kicking.
They can’t articulate it at all. Their position on this matter was on shaky ground to begin with.
I already know all of this. Despite that, it still takes 15 minutes to enter another dungeon REGARDLESS OF HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET KICKED
Your explanation of why the 15 minute timer does nothing to refute the fact that this statement
IS BLATANTLY. NOT. TRUE.
It always takes 15 minutes to enter another dungeon. I think that’s plenty sufficient. You don’t. Congratulations, we both have opinions on something.
If you’re going to continue arguing with such lazy dishonesty, then I’m sad I’ve wasted this much time on you.
You have to keep something in mind about these people defending this policy…
Most of them were anti-RDF in the past…
Suddenly they think this is the lesser of two evils? For example…
I was around for it and it did not happen the way they say it did…
It did happen, but not that much.
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So if it takes 15 minutes to remove the bad player from the group then you believe they’ve been punished enough (read: not at all) for being a poor sport?
What sort of backwards logic is that?
They banned GDKP didn’t they?
They could always ban taking a group hostage. Chat logs and screenshots would be more than enough to prove it.
And what was this player doing during those 15 minutes it took to kick him? He certainly wasn’t working towards clearing the dungeon, since he didn’t want to do the dungeon in the first place. Sounds like he’s punishing himself by wasting his own time.
Hell, even with the debuff, nothing is stopping this guy from switching to an alt. The deserter debuff is ineffective and unnecessary.
Sitting afk. Pulling over and over and wiping the group. Genuinely playing the game until getting to the boss they don’t like. Any number of things
Ok, so what stops people who are unfairly kicked from doing the same?
Yeah, that’s called wasting your time, like I said. You’re very clever to see this.
They shouldn’t have to do that. Maybe they don’t have alts. Maybe they only want to focus on one character. I hope that’s okay with you.
So you assume the poor sport has plenty of alts but the innocent player has none
Your logic is a two way street, buddy
They’re just going to gaslight further and further.
They firmly believe deserter for being kicked is the lesser of two evils.
Even if they might recognize that their way is wrong, they’re benefitting from this system and they’ll argue just to keep it in place; even if it’s in bad faith.
Yeah, they might have alts to circumvent the debuff. That goes right back to what I’ve already said:
Yap sessions
Alright, if that’s your stance then you arguing against the debuff is a waste of time, so why are you here?
I’ve got too much time to kill and nothing to do today 
Why is it a waste of time?
Being kicked from a dungeon with no debuff is the same as essentially doing nothing.
“oh boo hoo I got kicked…ANYWAY I learned nothing and will Q up again.”
Id rather also not rotate through people dropping group cuz they didnt get the dungeon they wanted. (which is copy paste the reason this was added in Wrath, due to occulus/etc)
Which will happen if there is no downside to spam leaving groups. Which would happen again instantly.
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