Kel'Thuzad's ability use on PTR

That answers questions for quite a few spells. Really enjoy the deeper looks into how things worked.


3 cheers for the retail client also. That had to have screwed some stuff up.

Not Blizzard’s fault /shrug


You can’t mind-wipe the population. You weren’t going to get an emulation of 12yr old you, drooling your way through content, clicking your spells and being clueless as to any of the underlying PvE concepts.


It’s wild that we can watch videos where Kel’Thuzad is not going more than 40 seconds without casting this ability but you still wrote all that to try and explain why we shouldn’t believe our own eyes.

Minute and a half gaps are obviously not working correctly and that doesn’t mirror the classic experience. You already have groups of mages killing raid bosses with no tanks or healers, and this will only make the encounter easier. Classic is already easier now for a lot of reasons you can’t control. But you can control this one. There’s no reason to introduce yet another tuning failure into the game.



Meaning not cast on a strict 25-second timer, but not deviating that far off it. None of these minute and a half gaps that Kaivax is saying are it working correctly.

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Frost Blast



You missed the one at 11:02.

My bad, will edit.

My new theory from that video and PTR experience is he deliberately holds frost blast sometimes to use it at the same time as chains of kel’thuzad.

Dunno about the occasional massively long gaps on chains of kel’thuzad though. Sometimes he literally does it every 60 seconds, in which case the encounter is about twice as hard.

Reminds me of mythic Jaina and the rng boat of doom.

From watching a few videos it seemed like excessive use of Shadow Fissure was delaying it, but I don’t know; I just skimmed through a few videos looking for significant delays between casts of Frost Blast.

I do remreber least back in the TBC a lot of boss timer’s would use the wording “cooldown timer on x spell is up” since all we know at the time was they spell is on CD and not when they cast probably also why a lot of people use to use an add on called witch hunt that would tell you EVERY SPELL in the raid getting case I’d always get it poping up on some random boss rebuff them selfs in black temple

People telling Blizzard how the timers in their game “actually” work is always amusing.


You don’t have to be a pilot to know a passenger plane shouldn’t be flying upside down.

I honestly don’t know if the timers on Kel’Thuzad are correct or not, but claiming if Blizzard says so it must be true just means you don’t know Blizzard.

What? That’s the point of the PTR…to give feedback.

It isn’t like Blizzard’s explanation falls short. RNG is RNG, and if the bosses are coded to have mutually exclusive abilities and a weighted priority system to use said abilities… you’re going to inherently get a LOT of variability from one attempt to the next.

Anyone here complaining: Have you EVER done Twin Emps? Seriously, if you’ve seen the Emps teleport exactly on CD every time, you’re either not watching the timer or you’re lying. The abilities are COOLDOWNS and like all software, it’s a PROGRAM executing decisions based on a logic system. A logic system created by a human, a super illogical creature. Something in the logic code tells it to hold one ability in favor of another. Sometimes that results in long periods without using a specific one. Such is life.


Most intelligent person in the entire known universe.

1 Frostbolt
2 Blast Wave
3 Frost Nova
4 Wait

If the AI picks 4, then it adds time. If it keeps picking 4, it adds time. If it picks 2, Blast Wave, it puts Frost Nova on cooldown. So now the decisions look like this:

1 Frostbolt
2 on Cooldown
3 on Cooldown
4 Wait

When the cooldown comes up, and Frost Nova can be used again, it decides to pick Frostbolt a few more times, and Wait a few more times.
When Frost Nova and Blast Wave are both off cooldown again, it has an opportunity again to use 1 Frostbolt, 2 Blast Wave, 3 Frost Nova, or 4 Wait, and it picks Blast Wave yet again, putting Frost Nova on cooldown once more. Repeat this enough times and you “skip” whole abilities. (Frost Nova being skipped multiple times because another spell sharing the same cooldown category gets cast first)

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The original concern wasn’t that sometimes he delays abilities, but that he was delaying abilities for three times their cooldown and it was seriously affecting the difficulty of the encounter.

Have you ever seen Twin Emperors go longer than 45 seconds without a teleport?