Kel'Thuzad's ability use on PTR

He seems to sometimes be going incredibly long periods without casting it, something I can’t find in any video or recall in my own experience.

Example

00:00:55.502 Kel’Thuzad casts Frost Blast on Chewy
00:02:32.975 Kel’Thuzad casts Frost Blast on Soildsra

A full 1m37s without casting his ability that clearly has a 25 second cooldown since other times he’s casting it every 25 seconds.

I suspect it’s something to do with batching so he’s missing a cast and resetting his timer somehow.

Also less extreme examples

00:01:48.692 Kel’Thuzad Frost Blast Kiwiandapple 1818
00:03:07.292 Kel’Thuzad Frost Blast Leps 1738

If we look at something like this

Frost blast at

5:46
6:25
6:59
7:28
7:56
8:22
8:48
9:33
9:58
10:30

6 Likes

Related. Today Kel’Thuzad went 2 minutes and 40 seconds between mind controls in the raid I was in. Almost like he completely skipped one and reset his timer.

In the curse video in the original post mind control is at 5:54, 7:33, 8:44, 9:50.

Something weird is happening with these timers on PTR.

3 Likes

Isn’t this like, the 4th bug related to Naxx boss ability timers that you guys have found?

2 Likes

That’s what PTR is for yeah?

3 Likes

No, I agree, I’m just saying, it’s kind of scary with the planned release timeline that there are this many unresolved.

2 Likes

Honestly I wonder if this is a bug that’s affecting live bosses too.

I’ve seen some weird things like Fankriss literally not casting summon worm for a full 90 seconds before dying, and Ayamiss the Hunter in Ruins of Ahn’qiraj not casting paralyze even a single time before dying. It’s similar behaviour, bosses randomly going completely afk sometimes.

But it would feel pretty bad if it happened on the final boss of Naxxramas that is supposed to be challenging.

3 Likes

Thats not the only issue with KT…the unstoppable aboms are doing like 60 damage with mortal wound lol.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/G9thmyPQkW2CbfqN#fight=last&type=damage-taken&ability=28467

3 Likes

I don’t know if this is actually a bug, but on wowhead blood tap says “200% weapon damage” and the Guardians of Icecrown are also doing like 60 damage with it.

Edit: Looking at old videos I don’t think either of these are bugs, private servers just got this wrong.

2 Likes

Look at the tank’s damage received/debuffs at the abomination 1:45


This is just one example of a video that shows Mortal Wound not dealing much damage at all, so Ianarian is right about private servers not being accurate.
1 Like

If Blood Tap is 200% weapon damage then it wouldn’t be 60 damage. Old comments on Blood Tap say it hits for around 1500ish.

1 Like

This is the Mortal Wound in the combat log:
spell=28467/mortal-wound
This is the Blood Tap:
spell=28470/blood-tap

Both of them are Weapon Damage - % Value: 199

Guardian of Icecrown deal increased damage over time, but Unstoppable Abomination deal fixed damage

1 Like

In the WOTLK db Blood Tap is

“Weapon Damage - %: Value: 125”

And it doesn’t hit for nothing, so I really dunno. But tanks in 2006 videos were taking tiny hits too.

1 Like

The volleys are doing weird things too with their timings.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LX6dAJQVnZwr8xqa#fight=78&type=casts&hostility=1&source=282&ability=28479&view=events

It’s fairly consistently 15 seconds apart, but sometimes 30 or 45 almost like he completely skips one or two and resets his timer, which has the effect of making the encounter noticeably easier.

1 Like

The question raised in threads like this one have been on our minds a lot as we’ve been testing on the PTR the last couple of months.

So let’s take a moment before Naxxramas releases tomorrow and talk about how boss abilities work in WoW Classic and Original WoW.

Why doesn’t Kel’Thuzad use abilities on strict timers?

The simple answer is, for the most part, that’s not how boss abilities work in World of Warcraft (Classic and Original). Bosses and other creatures are rarely set up to have exact timers for spells and ability usage. They often make decisions which were set up to be somewhat unpredictable. Multiple spells or abilities can be available to the boss, and they will deliberately evaluate what to do following their last spell cast.

Additionally, some bosses have abilities that share cooldowns in some way, similar to how players can’t activate two empowering on-use trinkets at the same time. This means that if a boss uses a significant ability, some of the other abilities that boss has may not be usable for a short period of time.

There are, of course, exceptions. Not all mechanics encountered in combat are being controlled by the same logic, and spells can have different shared cooldown categories, or they can be excluded from this restriction altogether.

In either case, these are typically purposeful design decisions, and the general intention was to prevent a boss from unloading all of its most impactful abilities within moments of each other. In the case of Kel’thuzad, we see it currently working correctly.

For comparison, here are a few other examples of encounters that have deliberately unpredictable ability recast timers, the result of which can become quite pronounced as combat time increases (or as combat time decreases, depending on your perspective):

  • Magmadar’s Panic Recast
  • Broodlord Lashlayer’s Blast Wave
  • Gurubashi Bat Rider’s Unstable Concoction
  • Nefarian’s Bellowing Roar

You’ve probably noticed this before with these encounters (or others), and it’s definitely accurate to say that this can and does influence the difficulty of the same encounter–at times wildly–from week to week.

In later versions of World of Warcraft, and with the continued advancement of player knowledge and skill, many foundations of encounter design changed to make randomness less of a factor in encounter difficulty. In WoW Classic however, the behavior of Original WoW has been preserved.

We hope this helps shed some light on this for you. We can’t wait to see you Naxxramas tomorrow. May your Frostbolt Volleys, Deep Breaths, and Bellowing Roars be many and eventful*.

*Or not!

20 Likes

Appreciate the attention to detail, and communicating your thoughts. Thank you!

2 Likes

The fact that knowledge of KTs toolkit is going to be relevant day one of release is why I stopped playing Classic.

Nothing about this is emulating the vanilla experience. We’ll probably see a 32 warrior full clear in under an hour.

2 Likes

Dunno why you started playing classic then.

The boss was killed 14 years ago.

11 Likes

So these things are sentient. Thank you so much for this insight. All the more reason these things must be stopped.

11 Likes

Thank you for the insight, always love seeing posts like this that dive a little deeper behind the scenes!

3 Likes

“reee muh vaniluh EXPERIUNZ”

Literally nothing can give you what you are asking for other than a time machine and a Men In Black styled memory eraser.

Like seriously, what exactly are you expecting out of Classic, if your complaint is “the game is bad because everyone knows the encounters” ? Blizzard cannot fix that. Because it’s not a problem.

If you want new and fresh content that nobody has ever seen before, go play retail.

3 Likes