Did you miss the part where I said it is irrelevant? We already went over this previously and you agreed with me. All imposition of will requires force. But that doesn’t matter because it would be unnecessary, the Alliance wouldn’t need that to start a war.
Anduin’s magic bones. I’m assuming they’ll be evil Light influence, but if they’re not…
Never agree to that? Just looking at past history I can probably come up with reasonable reasons for at least 5 of the Alliance’s member states to over react or be receptive to being mislead into supporting a war of aggression off the top of my head. A few more could be had with a little bit of work.
Once you get the majority of the Alliance onboard you have what you need for the Alliance to start a conflict. The rest can either opt to not participate on principle, or get swept along because even though they don’t agree with the war they would rather not see their allies start a war and lose because they with held aid.
1 Like
I think the Night Elves are going to be leaving the Alliance after BfA anyway. I think we are moving toward a 4 faction system.
You do realize that this exact song and dance happened per Chronicle 3 and Daelin/KT yes? That the Alliance explicitly decided against war despite KT trying to mislead the Alliance and that they withdrew?
And your point? Are you surprised that a franchise that is over 20 years old may end up having a situation occur that is similar to but not exactly like another situation?
and that didn’t stopped him from losing teldrassil or lordaeron so at least he made a mistake.
that thing that humans do.
That your idea has shown not to go the way you would like it to. That it is a lot harder than you are trying to represent to get the structure of the Alliance to operate in a manner you would wish. But if all you want is an echo chamber carry on.
2 Likes
So all the forsaken fans who also love the horde just have to get over it? Or are we going to have forsaken on the horde and a forsaken faction all on its own?
In your idea of a 4 faction wow that is.
Or more prominently, replace forsaken with NE and horde with alliance.
Four factions definitely aren’t happening. We’re all stuck together forever and ever and ever.
/insane smile.
1 Like
Ohhh, so you just don’t understand that sometimes things fail and other times things succeed, usually as the plot requires.
And again this word “structure” you keep throwing around, I’m not sure it means what you think it means.
Good news, I no longer feel bad for you.
I think of all the reasons to justify the Hordes protagonist status, I like the distinction between military aggression and economic aggression the most, save for the Forsaken who serve as acceptable targets for both without it breaking the Alliances character.
I could not forsee Anduin launching an all out attack on the Horde, but I could definitely see the various Alliance races force the Horde into an economic situation where they feel replying with force is the only action. Building global trade deals that destroy the Horde infrastructure, limiting intercontinental trade. Cataclysm had another example of this where the Alliance, not so subtly, clamped down on trade in ratchet and forced the Horde to look for other means to supply themselves(And the more I talk about this, the more I realize Cata did everything right with the faction conflict just not the spread of attention.) and diverting the lifeblood of the Horde into itself.
Economic aggression is not out of character for the Alliance, you could craft a highbrow story of factional conflict without resorting to total war and without destroying the Alliances themes.
1 Like
Whoa there. I don’t wanna try to engage in economic warfare with goblins. That has to be suicide!
1 Like
That would be a huge mistake for Blizz. Not only would you be further dividing the already shrunken player base, you’d be requiring them to have to write for 4 factions instead of 2 and focus their creative efforts and assets on 4 instead of 2. Plus the simple fact that one of the draws of the game is faction pride. Not to mention how do you do that to the existing players? Are people sent to a faction they don’t care about and players are removed from their guild?
Why do you think they are so good at it? They are suicidal!
1 Like
I remember when Gallywix was going to literally sue for peace, i’m salty we didn’t get to see what that even looks like in War Crimes.
“No amount of soldiers can keep you safe from my LAWYERS VARIAN!”
2 Likes
Man, we need a goblin court room drama quest chain.
1 Like
Economic aggression is a hard thing to sell in the WoW setting.
First they tried it in Cataclysm. The unjustified trade embargo against Orgrimmar barely gets a courtesy mention when it comes to discussing the factors of that war. It’s just not something that players are immediately prepared to understand.
Secondly, magic exists, so it’s really hard to make a case that economic aggression will actually have an effect. And by magic, I’m also casually including works of goblin engineering that defy common sense, like cities in a box.
Thirdly, economic aggression can be dealt with nonviolently with many many options at your disposal. If the Horde is cut off from trading in Alliance markets, you shift your trade to other markets. There is only one way to deal with a violent invader who will not negotiate.
Economic aggression may make the more intractable complainers in the Alliance playerbase feel better about things, but it won’t make a better story.
So get your own goblins. The Steamwheedle are still free agents.
Ah … I don’t want to sound patronizing, but you do know that “sue for peace” is a set phrase that just means “negotiate for peace,” right? It doesn’t mean a literal lawsuit.
In an international relations sense, structure relates to how the make up of the system and institutions creates nominal expected outcomes. It does not mean that there are events that can’t happen. Yet they are not the expected outcome. In this case, I started all of this by referring to Pellex’s idea as “impractical”. Which it absolutely is given how the system of the Alliance is designed, the states that in habit that system, and the roles and responsibilities with the Alliance from an institutional standpoint.
Coalitions are hard to get working in aggressive manners and generally the costs imposed by trying to force it does not equate to the benefits. But as you have not acknowledged here, but have elsewhere. You only care of the Alliance is not their story, not their agency, but how it lets you feel and be a protagonist.
Personally? This is why faction wars are unable to be written well in story driven MMOs.