11/13/2018 02:59 PMPosted by
Zabriel
What plot armor are you talking about? Is the same plot armor the Alliance has
i never said that the alliance didn't have the same plot armor.
that is not an excuse.because in the end is just bad writing for both.
11/13/2018 03:04 PMPosted by
Saiphas
<span class="truncated">...</span>
What plot armor are you talking about? Is the same plot armor the Alliance has, we know is not going to happen. Now, that doesn't mean we cannot suffer a major defeat but if that happens it's only fair we get to strike back in 8.2.
You guys already got that, it’s called the War of Thorns. And BfL was essentially a dual loss for both, as expressed both by the devs and Lost Honor showing the numbers of war deadness a Stormwind suffered.
BfDa was our response.
WoT it's what starts the war, I don't see the Battle of Dazar'alor as the ending for it. That's actually my point, the whole plot for this expansion is the faction war and you can't have only one side attacking and winning it has to come back and forward until the end in which we have to face N'zoth and this one is super obvious.
Edit:
@Etheldald
Agree.
Revenge? In a faction that's Lawful Good to the point of stupidity?
Its less likely than you think!
Revenge? In a faction that's Lawful Good to the point of stupidity?
Its less likely than you think!
But...
Muh fangs
But muh 'totallynotanemperor' Anduin feels sad and that's all that Alliance players are supposed to care about in Blizzard's eyes. Think about how upset your king* feels at you wanting revenge.
*Is technically only king of human players, but it doesn't stop Blizzard and idiots from thinking he's the 'king' of the entire alliance even when that makes it a empire.
...
But...
Muh fangs
But muh 'totallynotanemperor' Anduin feels sad and that's all that Alliance players are supposed to care about in Blizzard's eyes. Think about how upset your king* feels at you wanting revenge.
*Is technically only king of human players, but it doesn't stop Blizzard and idiots from thinking he's the 'king' of the entire alliance even when that makes it a empire.
Pretty sure I was much more sad and upset, when the civilian population of Teldrassil became kindling.
...
You guys already got that, it’s called the War of Thorns. And BfL was essentially a dual loss for both, as expressed both by the devs and Lost Honor showing the numbers of war deadness a Stormwind suffered.
BfDa was our response.
WoT it's what starts the war, I don't see the Battle of Dazar'alor as the ending for it. That's actually my point, the whole plot for this expansion is the faction war and you can't have only one side attacking and winning it has to come back and forward until the end in which we have to face N'zoth and this one is super obvious.
Edit:
@Etheldald
Agree.
Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT
Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.
11/13/2018 04:44 PMPosted by
Saiphas
...
WoT it's what starts the war, I don't see the Battle of Dazar'alor as the ending for it. That's actually my point, the whole plot for this expansion is the faction war and you can't have only one side attacking and winning it has to come back and forward until the end in which we have to face N'zoth and this one is super obvious.
Edit:
@Etheldald
Agree.
Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.
BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.
It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.
1 Like
...
Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.
BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.
It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.
Essentially what Sav said. Blizz themselves have called BfL a loss for the Horde and explicitly not a victory for the Alliance. (Ion on 8.1 announcement). The horde inflicted horrific losses on the Alliance at the undercity, so much so that had Anduin been in a modern military he would have been cashiered for gross negligence. As much as we joke about populations not mattering, it clearly does when blizzard is framing the cost of BfL to be sooo huge to the Alliance forces.
...
Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.
BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.
It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.
Blizz panicked when Alliance players complained about literally everything in BfA and told them BfL was a loss so they'll be getting their win "soon". I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.
11/13/2018 05:08 PMPosted by
Saiphas
...
BfL was the Alliance counterblow. Each side lost the same amount of territory and a capital. You think it doesn't count because the Horde was forced to blow up the capital themselves (in a FAILED attempt to kill the Alliance leaders)? The Horde was fighting to win that battle and defend that city and zone.
It is ridiculous to depict it as anything other than a Horde loss.
Essentially what Sav said. Blizz themselves have called BfL a loss for the Horde and explicitly not a victory for the Alliance. (Ion on 8.1 announcement). The horde inflicted horrific losses on the Alliance at the undercity, so much so that had Anduin been in a modern military he would have been cashiered for gross negligence. As much as we joke about populations not mattering, it clearly does when blizzard is framing the cost of BfL to be sooo huge to the Alliance forces.
You guys don't want to acknowledge that victory just because you didn't wipe the entire Horde. And as is mention before The Alliance is winning in every front of the war, that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Essentially what Sav said. Blizz themselves have called BfL a loss for the Horde and explicitly not a victory for the Alliance. (Ion on 8.1 announcement). The horde inflicted horrific losses on the Alliance at the undercity, so much so that had Anduin been in a modern military he would have been cashiered for gross negligence. As much as we joke about populations not mattering, it clearly does when blizzard is framing the cost of BfL to be sooo huge to the Alliance forces.
You guys don't want to acknowledge that victory just because you didn't wipe the entire Horde. And as is mention before The Alliance is winning in every front of the war, that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.
Ummm, wut? no I am literally using the wow Announcement for tides of vengeance.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/311722491
13:30 "And Alliance really suffered a number of heavy losses throughout that process. Of course the tree at Teldrassil was burnt down, they thought they had the upperhand at the battle for Lordaeron, the undercity, but victory...sorry defeat was snatched from the jaws of victory." I am not sure how much more clear you need that BfL was not an alliance win.
Also, I am not sure you know my post history, but never once have I said that the entire horde should be wiped out...like ever.
11/13/2018 05:18 PMPosted by
Zabriel
that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.
Sure. By all means, step up and get villain batted again.
How will you win this time? Abominations and flesh titans crafted from Draenei orphans?
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by
Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.
So, like the wins the Horde get then.
Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.
If the roles in WoT were reversed you'd be complaining that the Alliance struggled too much against an inferior fighting force. And as for the zones, the mission table paints the picture that all of the Nelf and Forsaken territory is contested
11/13/2018 05:18 PMPosted by
Zabriel
You guys don't want to acknowledge that victory just because you didn't wipe the entire Horde. And as is mention before The Alliance is winning in every front of the war, that only leaves room for a counter attack later in 8.2.
you seem to be confused with the thread, we can discuss the alliance or horde victory another time, the alliance winning in 8.1 is deserved, we deserve to win the war. because well, we aren't genocidal maniacs.
but this thread is about
the kaldorei revenge, getting spotlight or well, damaging the horde in a eye for an eye.
was lordaeron their revenge? no,when the kaldorei burn a capital with all of their civilians inside while stomping everything in their path then we are talking of what they deserve.
so.. are we going to have it when, in 6 or 8 years from now?
11/13/2018 05:28 PMPosted by
Okagha
If the roles in WoT were reversed you'd be complaining that the Alliance struggled too much against an inferior fighting force.
well, because at the start of the pre-patch the alliance were superior this is literally stated by ingame characters and devs the horde don't stand a chance if this were written correctly. you know, having interdimensional ships, demigods and weapons of mass destruction.
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by
Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.
So, like the wins the Horde get then.
Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.
Objectively unequal results.
It has nothing to do with wanting to "wipe out the entire Horde".
11/13/2018 05:14 PMPosted by
Okagha
I'm starting to think the only wins Alliance care about are completely stomping the other side without even breaking a sweat.
So, like the wins the Horde get then.
Again, the result of the War of Thorns was the loss of 3 zones for the Alliance.
The result of Battle for Lordaeron was the loss of 1 zone for the Horde.
And that 1 zone the Horde lost? It's not even occupied by the Alliance because of scorched earth.
Objectively unequal results.
It has nothing to do with wanting to "wipe out the entire Horde".
And now there is a new warfront and storyline around those zones with the purpose to get them back while getting revenge for what happen at Teldrasil.
So, like the wins the Horde get then.
The wins that the Horde gets require an incredible sacrifice of unity and enjoyment of the Horde storyline for players. This is wholly monkey paw territory.
11/13/2018 04:44 PMPosted by
Saiphas
Dazar'alor is the response to the WoT and the nullpoint of BfL. You are right that it does not end the war, IT Does count as the Alliance counterblow to all the prepatch stuff though. As to if they will continue the faction war stuff, we shall see.
The problem is, they have not really indicated that the faction war continues in 8.2 - they've spent all their time hyping Naga. If the faction war ends at the 8.1 status quo, then it's a loss for the Horde. A brutal loss for the Horde. A loss where we spent essentially no time enjoying victory of any kind.
If the faction war ends as-is on the events of 8.1, the Horde will be the losers by far, they will be irredeemably evil, incompetent, AND they will be fighting a civil war while in a weakened state. 8.1 represents such an incredible nadir for the Horde story, yet I still fear that's where they'll end the faction war, with their scoreboard having come up as some twisted version of "even" even as every story thematic says otherwise.
It would be absurd if we went to all old god stuff from here on out rather then the Horde striking back in a major way....which is why it's going to happen.
I can see the gears turning in Blizzards head right now, they realize the expansions been made for no one, everybody is equally unhappy, and therefore they need some way to salvage a total war narrative. The only way is to cripple the Horde and Alliance so thoroughly that they can realistically attack one another, so they make everything explode with tentacles.
Age of Black Empire here we come.
I would also point out that to get the success of the Battle for Da, we have a multracial coalition that performs a suicide mission to draw off the Horde and Zandalari forces. These forces die so that the alliance gets their shot. The Alliance pays for its strike in blood, and wins, and it is in fact a decisive military victory. But that does not mean we get it without breaking a sweat.
Edit: Also per Blizzcon, while not center stage, the warcampaign still continues with Anduin and Jaina being the Alliance lynchpins opposed to Sylvanas. My hope is that this is seperated from the Naga stuff so the NEs can get some more spotlight against the former Highborne.
1 Like
11/13/2018 05:35 PMPosted by
Saiphas
Edit: Also per Blizzcon, while not center stage, the warcampaign still continues with Anduin and Jaina being the Alliance lynchpins opposed to Sylvanas. My hope is that this is seperated from the Naga stuff so the NEs can get some more spotlight against the former Highborne.
I'm good with this, as it's a Forsaken leader versus two humans, maybe it means we'll take a crack and getting that thing we used to own back. I can't remember what it's name was, i think it starts with an L.