Despite my disdain for the Elves who stole the Amani troll’s land, I do kind of agree that Kael’thas is an ally for the Horde. Even if only because he is an enemy of the Alliance. I agree that having him as a racial leader of the Horde could help by adding one more leader who wants war against the evil Alliance. I truly cannot stand that the Horde is now being run by peace-loving leaders. We need strong leaders to make the Horde strong again.
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Kael’thas was a based leader but i’d rather take Lor’themar over Kael’thas any day. Dude’s far better in every regard.
He lost his good eye and proceeded to simp for Jaina. Even invited alliance leaders to his wedding, spitting on the feelings of their Zandalari allies. Dude is a loser nothing else.
What, exactly, IS Theron? I like his track record for the Horde, but that doesn’t speak to any sort of personality, culture, or theme.
We need a new Kael’thas. Not literally. But a new high level Blood Elf character to fill his thematic role. Blood Elves are missing that boundless ambition and “bad things for the greater good” mentality that defined them.
We’re also missing a charismatic leader, which Blood Elves NEED imo. Just listen to them talk when you click on them. They’re so adorably paranoid and jingoistic. They need a brash, unifying, strong-headed leader to suit them. Someone who could believably run a place like Silvermoon. Have you seen it lately?
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Hey bro, I was fine living in Outland. No need to stay on Amani land. Fancy a new room mate on your homeworld? 
What, exactly, IS Theron? I like his track record for the Horde, but that doesn’t speak to any sort of personality, culture, or theme.
Lor’themar Theron is a leader who has consistently held the best interests of Silvermoon and the Sin’dorei at heart time and time again; one who led the ruined kingdom of Quel’thalas out of the rubble and into a better future alongside the New Horde.
We need a new Kael’thas. Not literally. But a new high level Blood Elf character to fill his thematic role. Blood Elves are missing that boundless ambition and “bad things for the greater good” mentality that defined them.
I do agree with this; Whilst I do look back fondly on the TBC Blood Elf era, I’ve never totally disliked their new direction either. I wouldn’t be opposed to Rommath (or the Magisters in general as an organization) fulfilling this role so as to represent that era. Hell, a new character altogether, even.
We’re also missing a charismatic leader, which Blood Elves NEED imo. Just listen to them talk when you click on them. They’re so adorably paranoid and jingoistic. They need a brash, unifying, strong-headed leader to suit them. Someone who could believably run a place like Silvermoon. Have you seen it lately?
Lor’themar -is- a charismatic leader, and Lor’themar also -is- that leader who could unify them and run Silvermoon well. Silvermoon’s better than it ever has been under the Regency compared to the reigns of both Anasterian and Kael’thas imo.
Bob runs a country that only makes up 10% of the original population. He aided killing the heir to the throne and half of Silvermoon is still in ruins. Not to mention that the void elves broke off from the survivors too. So far his track record is bad.
Yeah, that’s not a personality. I’m not saying he’s not a decent guy. That alone doesn’t make for good storytelling. He has half the charisma of my buttcheeks.
The problem isn’t that the Blood Elves have a new direction. It’s that they only seem to have one direction. I think we can definitely agree on that.
Well, when royalty decides it is best that his own people die or be sold into slavery, I will commend any person, be they regent or not, who decides to say: “Screw you king, my people will live and prosper, I will defend them against your insanity!”
From what we see in a zone that is still in TBC state. The quests also still have us kill Dar’khan Drathir, and repeatedly kill the same murloc leader over and over again. Blood Elves also keep on repelling Night Elven invaders.
Saying that half of Silvermoon is still in ruins, is a rather moot point.
Buttcheeks can be quite charismatic, but I am a butt person… so yeah.
That said, he is rather intriguing as a character, saying that he is charismatic is probably not very true. But not every good character have to have charisma to be good. It is part of his character to be out of his depth in social situations, it is why he needed Thalyssra to rope him into living a life as a normal person.
Man is/was a workaholic.
They are basically back to being High Elves from before the scourge attacked Quel’thalas in WC3. They have the exact same possible direction as they did then, aka, it is quite open ended. People just expect the entire Blood Elven people to be light fanatics, due to the Sunwell. That is a mistake.
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I’m amused that you find Kael so compelling and yet Theron so prosaic. Here’s a dry, jaded mage prince ranger lord who gave up his passion in life (the Kirin Tor Farstriders) to rally a people (the high elves blood elves) and rule a kingdom he was unprepared to inherit. His notable achievements include spurning the Alliance Remnants Alliance to strike a bold pact with the monstrous Illidari monstrous Horde and battling Garithos Jaina after his people were rounded up in Dalaran. Aside from their classes, their characters only really diverge in that fel magic rotted Kael’s brain and he died a disgraced megalomaniac.
Theron also bagged a baddie rather than creep on human girls a tenth his age, so he’s got Kael’thas embarrassed in the romance department.
Is that DH your only blood elf? I mean, have you never gone through their zones, interacted with their various factions/NPCs, noticed all the political divisions in Silvermoon, read any of the novellas that touch on this stuff? Everything you’re asking for has been pretty consistently provided, with the exception of a dedicated “evil blood elf” group. And even then, the remnants of Kael’s Sunfury did rejoin Quel’Thalas…
Well… if you believe 2023’s blood elf narrative should comport itself to that time-locked window into 2007, I’m beginning to make more sense of your rhetoric. 
FWIW, I’d also like to know how blood elf warlocks fit into Silvermoon’s sunnier climate. This one was cool. Hearthstone - somehow the superior medium for racial storytelling - even had a felblood elf demon hunter rally the wretched to Silvermoon’s defense in its blood elf/Scourge expansion. I do think there’s a place for edgier blood elves. But I also think you rather missed the point in holding up TBC’s Kael’thas as the blood elf ideal.
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All of whom were killed by the Scourge which happened before Lorthemar took over. It actually happened on King Anastarien’s watch. So, by your logic, it’s all his fault.
Kael’thas deserved it seeing has he sold out to the Legion and tried to drag all the blood elves with him. The guy was straight up terrible in the end and should really count his blessings he didn’t get punted straight to the Maw.
He could have killed them all instead of letting them leave, but we’re trying to be a more civilized Horde.
Since we’re all getting more and more cooperative anyway, it doesn’t matter that much anymore. Alleria and Umbric can both continue being salty over Quel’thalas flying those Horde banners intead of the Alliance ones, if they want. It’s not like they’d be allowed near the Sunwell anymore either way.
It’s better than Kael’thas.
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I think that’s exactly the problem for us who really liked the old Blood Elves. They just aren’t that any more. Since the well was restored with holy energy and they successfully reclaimed and secured Quel’thalas they became arguably more benevolent than the old High Elves.
In addition, a lot of the old topics don’t (arcane magic addiction, Burning Legion and fel magic) which were part of the old blood elves aren’t the focus of the storyline anymore.
Lor’themar, Halduron, Liadrin and a Rommath who learned from the mistakes made, do make sense, and in a way the BE are in the best position they have ever been since the original Highborne established Quel’thalas. I also don’t know if they could have kept up the more paranoid, xenophobic BE for ever without that causing problems (Horde is evil etc.) and also becoming boring over time. The devs might have been right with giving them a more upbeat storyline and turning them in to HE in the end.
But, I also miss my old, doing “bad things for greater good”, reckless, arcane/fel addicts. I just don’t think they will come back, because most of those topics aren’t relevant anymore and/or taken over by other races (Nightborne, Void Elves).
Hence, why I don’t think bringing Kael’thas back would make a lot of sense. If they ever remade a game during the timeline of WC3, WoW, TBC I hope they’d give Kael’thas a better latter part of his story. He was my favorite character, and the reason why I started playing WoW, but for WoW I think that ship has sailed.
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Same. But I wasn’t being a jerk, it was an honest question. This golden dark age the edgier blood elf players yearn for really wasn’t all that dark in the first place; the moment we got to Outland, a civil war between the “good” and “bad” elves became apparent and inevitable, and Azeroth’s faction was overall pretty milquetoast save for the Orwellian government (itself puppeteered by the “bad” ones). It’s a bit weak to argue false advertising when the blood elves’ myth arc not only drove, but concluded their debut expansion.
The Blood Knights were the only facet of blood elf society directly neutered by the race’s redemption arc, and even that was more a failure of storytelling than story. The rest of this nuance has either always been there or never been there.
Not I. Nowadays, the “Fascist slaver” vibes you’re so nostalgic for would get the guilty blood elves executed and the city heroically liberated by the Alliance. Miss me with that hell.
I do think it’s rather silly to demand the race’s leader, by most accounts a fair distillation of the tenacity and patriotism we expect from Average Joe’dorei, be replaced to reflect a nadir they overcame sixteen real life years ago. To put it another way, “Our people are not defined by tragedy, but by our ability to overcome it.”
Well put, these are more or less my final thoughts on the topic. Had they learned nothing from the ordeal and continued down Kael’s spiral, they’d have lost it all anyway after Theron added his doomed Horde to Garrosh’s and Sylvanas’s. The Blood Horde? The Sun Horde? I shudder to think.
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I think that depends a bit. You are right in a way of course. The storyline went into that direction, but it looks like the devs were doing it on the fly. If you looked at how Quel’thalas/Silvermoon was done, it looks like they took a hard turn during development. For people like us who liked the darker BE - there was still a lot of that stuff around initially (like Zaranista mentioned, the quotes. The initial animation, the BE racials, the fel crystals, the fel eyes etc.). It took a while until most of that got changed, to make it look more benign than it was originally shown (fel eyes not because of syphoning, but because of usage to rebuild Silvermoon etc.).
So some of us remember that part more (because we liked it) : ). It was pretty dark. Maybe too much to keep it up without causing problems. Silvermoon society looked pretty much proto-fascistic right at the start. But they changed that pretty fast.
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You come off as an incredibly passive-aggressive, you know that?
You act like the Blood Elf experience lasted a few days. Back in TBC, it was years of many people’s lives. It took child me AGES to get to Outland and see what Kael’thas was up to. But I still had two entire zones (and quests scattered throughout) to get used to the idea of Blood Elves being…something other than just High Elves. Also, as you note, Silvermoon has existed as it has since 2007. Of course people will come to expect the people representing the city to be representative of the city. There’s a reason people see Blood Elves the way they do, which seems to be so confusing for you.
I’m not pining for fascism. Jesus Christ, lady. I want nuance and balance. I want conflict and flaws. I want forward progress but ideological disagreements. I want Blood Elves with some bite to balance out the flawless perfection. Stop turning this into something its not.
We had the exact same experience it seems : )
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Thank you for letting me know I’m not crazy. It’s like these people try to gaslight you into thinking you’re insane for expecting Blood Elves to be anything but High Elves. If you just like Horde High Elves then that’s fine. But it’s ridiculous and disingenuous to act like our complaints are invalid.
It’s funny because Silvermoon reminds me less of fascism and more Soviet East Germany. There seems to be no peasantry or housless people. Everyone has to be on board with “the plan”, everyone is expected to take care of each other (the eversong quests really indicate this), dissent was discouraged through magical espionage, police questioning people in the streets, etc.
It was an interesting twist on High Elven society, while still coming off as High Elven. It felt like an elven country that just went through an awful war and had a revolution. It felt like…I dont know…the Blood Elves?
Oh, for sure, there was definitely some significant backtracking during the blood elves’ development. Contrast Metzen’s loose pitch for the race in 2005 with the much-softened lore blurb they debuted with. Their usage of fel was so vague that we didn’t even get a canon explanation for the eye change until the devs were directly asked to clarify it years later.
We’re arguing about elves on the internet, I assure you there’s less acrimony here than you seem to believe.
Lol, what do you want me to say? You specifically highlighted those tendencies as quirks you believe their narrative is weaker without. I’m not convinced it is; if anything, I reckon their overall story would be enriched were those fifteen years’ worth of progress reflected in-game. I’m giddy just thinking of all the potential RP loops.
I wouldn’t have responded in the first place had you led with this rather than “blood elves have no coherent reasons for being how they are.” I get that you don’t like the way their A plot concluded, but its fallout tracks pretty well. A race that saw its beloved prince destroy himself, corrupt them all, and nearly kill the world with evil magic would probably squint harder at evil magic in the future. As we saw with Rommath and the void guys.
Now I think of it, isn’t that whole plot exactly what you’re asking for? Power-hungry, forward-thinking blood elves at an ideological impasse with their more conservative kin; a fairly nuanced conflict in which both sides have a point and flawed decision-making abounds? How did that happen if this “flawlessly perfect” race has lost its capacity for intrigue?
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Kael’thas is the best. Bob must die.
I will admit, Kael used to be a cool character. It’s a shame blizz ruined him so thoroughly. Maybe blizz can write that he had a kid hidden away somewhere who has his personality or close to it.
Lorth’remar would be an even better character if they did more with him. Instead of him always being a side character to everyone elses story
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