HEY! Those trolls had the nerve to be stomping around on the historically valuable artifacts that tell the story of their soon to be tragically wiped out civilization!
It’s a travesty against archeology!
13 Likes
Well, relevant to the thread at hand, apparently the Witherbark were once allied to the New Horde but betrayed Thrall in some as of yet unexplained event.
It’s possible the Witherbark are the reason Thrall didn;t like Forest trolls. At least until the Revantusk reached out to them.
The problem with Hakkar is his blood plague. It devasated the ancient Zandalari, and created the blood trolls.
In fact, the entire reason G’huun, the wannabe Old God, has a blood theme at all is because he got infected with Hakkar’s blood plague. He’s the reason G’huun was so dangerous at all.
Hakkar was a danger to Azeroth if only because of the blood plague he spread when ever he entered Azeroth. He had to be stopped, or else he’ll wipe out most of life on Azeroth.
They were from the jungle troll tribes, not High Priests from Zandalar. Also Hakkar brainwashed them, this is lore from vanilla.
Maybe those undead guys can figure out a cure for it, then he wouldn’t be so dangerous. Ain’t the Forsaken great at studying plagues and stuff? Anyways Hakkar was the one who answered and helped the Gurubashi in their time of need, so he gets some credit as far as I am concerned.
This picture is also cool as all hell:
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/3/3d/Chronicle3_Hakkar.jpg?version=fbde9cd6f7289872b4aedbe382b471ff
2 Likes
I don’t understand. Do you think Hakkar is unintentionally spreading the Blood Plague? Cause it’s an ability of his, not some ambient arua. He’s intentionally spreading the plague.
Besides the original blood plague outbreak that devastated Zandalar and caused them to distrust and hate Hakkar happened thousands of years before the Forsaken existed, how is bringing them up solving anything?
Also don’t think the Forsaken are in the market in curing things. I remember a tauren who tried to approach the Forsaken for a cure and got poisoned for her efforts.
But he caused the Gurubashi Empire to fall apart before the Zandalari even intervened. The other jungle tribes were being sacrificed to Hakkar and they were beginning to revolt, the Zandalari came to their aid, they did not stir those flames the other tribes didn’t like being sacrificed to Hakkar.
Don’t forget the Gurubashi prosperity came at the expense of every other troll tribe near by. They didn’t want Hakkar to be resummoned in vanilla WoW, it’s why they even tried to stop it.
That it is. Hakkar is a cool as hell villain. But he’s without a doubt a villain. The two times he was summoned nearly destroyed the empires he was summoned to.
4 Likes
Hmm. I was under the impression this was one of the benefits of their addition to the Horde, that in their studying of the plague they became more knowledgeable on such matters. Maybe it’s head canon or a misinterpreted notion I gained from reading peoples forums posts.
The long centuries following the Great Sundering of the world were difficult ones for the troll race. Famine and terror were commonplace within the broken kingdoms. The Gurubashi trolls, driven to desperate ends, sought aid from ancient, mystical forces. Though both of the troll kingdoms shared a central belief in a great pantheon of primitive gods, the Gurubashi fell under the sway of the darkest one.
Hakkar the Soulflayer, a vile, bloodthirsty spirit, heard the trolls’ call and decided to aid them. Hakkar gave his secrets of blood to the Gurubashi and helped them extend their civilization across most of Stranglethorn Vale and certain islands of the South Seas. Though he brought them great power, Hakkar wanted more and more for his efforts.
- “Wrath of the Soulflayer”, book found in Booty Bay.
It sounds like the Gurubashi were, like other tribes, already suffering famines and terror prior to intervention by Hakkar.
1 Like
And in return for his aid, the Gurubashi were sacrificing the other jungle troll tribes.
He was cruel, and the Gurubashi knew it. They knew that Hakkar would destroy all life on Azeroth if he was summoned, the very source you yourself cited says so;
The bloodthirsty god demanded souls be sacrificed to him daily. He dreamed of gaining access to the physical world so he could devour the blood of all mortal creatures
And so the jungle troll tribes revolted, and then the Zandalari joined to aid them.
Before the Atal’ai could complete the summoning, the other jungle trolls, including the Hakkari, rose up in open revolt against the cruel god. Even the Zandalar tribe was drawn into the conflict, which finally ended with the destruction of Hakkar’s avatar.
-Troll Compendium
Hakkar was destroying the Gurubashi Empire, most of the subjects revolted against the very idea of summoning him.
The Gurubashi Empire was destroyed because of the fact they begun worshipping Hakkar. Outside interference from the Zandalari did not start until after the empire was crumbling and open revolts begun.
Hakkar may have been a potential salvation, but in the end his cruelty destroyed, not saved, the Gurubashi. And if the summoning succeeded, he would’ve tried to destroy all life on Azeroth, even the Gurubashi. It says all life, after all.
Hmm. Trying to rack my brain, but I believe the real benefit argued to Thrall was having a base of power on the Eastern Kingdoms.
The only cure I know of being discussed was the tauren looking into a cure for Undeath for the Forsaken.
1 Like
That’s just like, the authors opinions man.
I mean yeah the sources do have an anti Hakkar bias!
…but still I was just saying the Gurubashi sounded like they were suffering and going down anyways? Hakkar just gave them temporary prosperity at least before wreaking havoc across the jungles. Like yeah the sources say he caused their downfall… but did he really do it all himself if they were in midst of collapsing already?
It’s probably just head canon on my part from reading too many forum posts and the way the Apothecary is seen studying herbs and stuff and look like doctors, leading to my assumptions.
1 Like
I think Grand Apothecary Putress and the Royal Apothecary Society developed the cure for the zombie plague outbreak in the Wrath pre-patch.
2 Likes
At least the Shatterspear tribe joined the horde.
4 Likes
True, but there was never quite a lore explanation as to why. In Classic the tribe is neutral to both factions, dancing in a secluded hard to reach place. Then come Cataclysm they mechanically are put on the Horde ironically only to seal their fate as quest fodder for the Alliance in Darkshore.
3 Likes
This seems to be the only thing I can dig up.
https://twitter.com/RoBrooks13/status/1027684019608014848
1 Like
I’m a bit sad about that.
As you said, pre-Cata they were neutral and dancing in their Vale, and post-Cata, they were wearing Horde colors, attacking, and torturing Sentinels and wandering civilians alike.
So… why the change?
Did they always dislike the night elves? Were they persuaded by Garrosh’s ambassadors? If so, what arguments were used to persuade them? Do the survivors view the Horde as rescuers who helped them after the tribe fell, or manipulators who sent their tribe to fight a larger army and did little when that army turned around and crushed them? Did the night elves do something to begin that conflict? If so, what did they do and why did they do it?
6 Likes
I mean, pre-cata, you got in there by cheesing down the mountain from Winterspring. I remember getting in there with a combination of pally bubble and soul stone.
Lore wise, and this is a bit silly, but lore wise, were they even interacting with darkshore? Did the cataclysm open up the path? I mean, I assume so, obviously in game assets don’t always perfectly mimic what is “true” from lore. Still, a little background would certainly be welcome.
2 Likes
Yep, there’s a tunnel in current Darkshore. The night elf player travels into that specific vale to go stomp on the buildings with a giant tree and slay their leader.
2 Likes
Oh, I mean, I knew about the path of course, I meant, lore wise, was that path always there and just not reflected in game, or was that path, lore wise, opened up with Deathwing rocked the world.
1 Like
Ah. Looking through the quests, it doesn’t seem to have an explanation one way or the other.
The only lead-in is “something riled up the trolls” and now they’re attacking… which sorta implies it’s not surprising that the trolls can travel to and from their vale, but it could just as easily be an oversight.
1 Like
This was always a mystery. The Troll compendium, prior to Cataclysm, says :
The trolls’ purpose in living here is unknown at this point in time. Certainly it is a strange location for any troll to choose to live: surrounded by mountains and, beyond that, the trolls’ ancient enemies: night elves.
In any case it seems they were left a lone by the night elves, and that they also left the night elves a lone… until the Cataclysm. But then it’s unexplained how the Horde convinced them to, all we get is:
The letter from Garrosh Hellscream makes clear the suspicions that were raised during the offensive on the Shatterspear. The presence of forsaken at the tower ruins and horde supplies and enforcers at the Shatterspear War Camp were only the start. Garrosh himself contacted the Shatterspear to spur their offensive towards Lor’danel, and it seems clear that he fully intends to push from the south as well.
1 Like
A sentinel calls the Shatterspear “sympathizers” towards the Horde, so to me this certainly implies the Shatterspear had interactions with the Horde before the Cataclysm, and it was enough for them to be considered Horde sympathizers.
Possibly but we never see or hear about it.
Maybe they should figure out how to make their names appear in Yellow or Green if they didn’t want me to beat 'em up.