Pretty Chill? Gnoll Wars sounds “pretty chill” to you? Gnolls were surely better with living under Gurubashi. But hey, it’s human expansionism again being jusified “because”.
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Yes. I’m pro gnoll genocide. We don’t even need camps.
Pretty. Chill.
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Even more Ammo.
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Dakka dakka!
What am I going to level on? Merlocs?
You monster!
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I disagree. Because the implication is the actions against the Witherbark are not justified. Which, if the Witherbark are just as justified, it means they’re not, either.
The Horde and Alliance would be in the wrong as well.
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Just for clarification. Do you think the actions taken by the Horde/Alliance against the Witherbark were justified or not?
If they were done in self-defense, well, not justified, but not on the hook, either. If they were doing it just for the sake of getting the Winterbark off the land for the sake of it, then no, they were not justified.
Likewise for the Winterbark themselves.
That’s a pretty ambiguous and nuanced answer, mostly erring on the side of caution.
See, that’s the thing. The game doesn’t treat it that way. You kill the trolls- and not in self defense, as you have to go into their camp to kill them. You’re praised. You move on. Nobody even considers for one second that it might be wrong in the way they do when you’re asked to kill many other races.
And it’s not an isolated incident, but one that’s kind of been going on when it comes to all trolls for countless generations.
And the people who engage in it are ostensibly the good guys.
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And I would think that the same would be the case if it was framed from the Witherbark perspective.
The game doesn’t run strictly on protagonist centered morality.
There are plenty of times when we’re shown things that the Horde/Alliance or the PC has done from the point of view of Horde/Alliance characters and still made to feel conflicted or even outright bad about it. Or times when things happen to characters that aren’t ours or even from our faction, and we’re encouraged to sympathize with them.
Or cases where the game fails to properly address how messed up a thing the hero does is and people take to other channels to point out how this or that particular injustice has gone improperly addressed.
It’s just that it doesn’t happen very often when it comes to the topic of trolls.
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And where has it ever shown the Amani or Witherbark feeling conflicted over their attacks?
If they were playable it would be just as unlikely that they would be shown to be conflicted or in the wrong.
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They aren’t. But neither are they really ever held up as be heroic or morally superior.
That’s not true.
There are plenty of times when we’re shown things that the Horde/Alliance or the PC has done from the point of view of Horde/Alliance characters and still made to feel conflicted or even outright bad about it. Or times when things happen to characters that aren’t ours or even from our faction, and we’re encouraged to sympathize with them.
Or cases where the game fails to properly address how messed up a thing the hero does is and people take to other channels to point out how this or that particular injustice has gone improperly addressed.
How the game and most players judge the morality or heroics of an act isn’t dependent upon the act itself. In many cases, it’s not even about who does it, although that can be a determining factor. But the target of act matters a whole heck of a lot. Whether they’re friendly or not to us at the time.
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I kind of really liked Legion’s class identity. I had more fun being a member of the Ebon Blade during Legion than I have in years as a member of the Horde or Alliance.
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Ok I see it’s pointless to discuss this with you so I will skip up
They are being persecuted and assaulted by the two game faction that wants to wipe them out only because they live in that land, plain and simple which makes their actions more sympathetic
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I don’t really understand this line of reasoning… Yeah, we are playing from the perspective of the colonizers in this instance, but that doesn’t mean, as players, we can’t objectively look at a situation and formulate an opinion on it that isn’t in alignment with the perspective the game is framed from.
I guess I just think your argument is… Well, not really an argument?
And keep in mind… I generally don’t really like trolls. But I think saying the Trolls are being displaced from their ancestral land, and the belief that is a bad thing our factions are doing, is pretty reasonable. There is a nuanced discussion there, but it’s a perspective that makes sense.
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I do not find it to be untrue.
Are assuming that this would be a case where the Witherbark are shown conflicted over that they are still trying to get rid of everyone else from Arathi?
I assume that this would be a case of the game failing to properly address how messed up a thing a Witherbark hero does same as it has for the Alliance and Horde. Which is my point. I see no indication that it would be presented any differently.
Yes, there are cases where things are framed different. Stating that they exist in no way ties them to the likelihood of the Witherbark’s situation in Arathi being any more nuanced than the Horde and Alliance’s situation in Arathi.
And the Witherbark wants to wipe out anyone else that was already living on that land plain and simple as well, which makes them no more sympathetic.
This is true. I would wish more people would do that. As what people are doing is side skirting that objectively looking at the situation, the Witherbark and Amani are no better than the Alliance or Horde in this situation, and my argument is that people are intentionally avoiding that for the sake of waxing philosophical on better framing that the Witherbark do not deserve.
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And the other people’s argument is that the Trolls are ALWAYS on the wrong side of this “framing”, no matter what has been done to them.
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No they’re not. The Darkspear and Zandalari aren’t.
Even the Amani were presented better in the original Zul’Aman trailer.
That we wiped them out for Budd Nedreck did not make the Alliance and Horde look heroic.
They still are. Or did you forget that people argued it was okay to target the Zocalo shoppers with fire elementals during the Battle of Dazar’alor because even unarmed Trolls pose a threat to armed troops and therefore every single one needs to be treated as a combatant and hunted down?
I didn’t: