Just timed SV+8 as Brewmaster and hotdaym my cheeks are sore

Classes Monk
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Just wrapped up my Stonevault +8 (timed)

Holy Moly Macaron I was fighting for my life man. Stagger goes BRRRR under 1.5 seconds of engage.

First double pack pull of the dungeon - WOOOOOOOOOH man. I nearly :poop:'d my pants.

I’m not some god tier monk, but I don’t think I’m bad either.
All my BoK combos were going to brew CDRs. I was STARVING for Purifying brews man…STARVING.

We need some adjutments man…we really do…

Some details screenshots.
BoK on cooldown for brews. Very little Tiger Palm due to sheer starvation of brews.
Vivify instant casts every 10s religiously.

I’m also 27% versa and 27% crit. My every single piece of equipment is Versa/Crit.

We need some buffs man…this is brutal

Edit: had screenshots from a wrong dungeon (untimed COT7 - here are the new ones from timed SV8 https://imgur.com/a/TRPRU5D)

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As someone who plays brew, but with WW and MW gear I’m scared with big haste.

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I have timed every dungeon +8/+9 and one +10 on Brewmaster now, around i615. It’s really not that bad.

For example, my +9 City of Threads yesterday we finished with 8min left. My Damage-Taken-Per-Second for the dungeon was 485k, which is very low. When I did a +8 City of Threads on my Spriest earlier that day, the Blood DK took 1.1mil DTPS. Granted, he’s self healing, but it underscores just how little damage Brewmasters really take.

I’m now staggering 42% of incoming damage, I have a 66% uptime on shuffle (so I’m dodging like a mad man). I’m doing 1-2mil DPS on decent sized pulls, which feels fine. I’m having zero threat issues. During some aggressive pulls my self healing can hit 700k - 800k Healing-Per-Second, which is pretty high for a tank people claim has no self-healing. Furthermore, I can trivialize EVERY SINGLE Xalatath mechanic. I can dispel myself, I can touch of death the 1hp shield mobs, I can Ring of Peace the orbs that fall from the sky.

Brewmaster isn’t meta - hell it’s not even particularly strong. But if you’re failing in keys lower than +12/+13 or so, that’s a YOU issue and not a Brew issue. I think Brew’s problems become much more apparent in the higher, bleeding edge keys. Personally, my biggest issue so far has been pull sizes. I feel like I’m slightly limiting my groups because I can’t pull massive mob packs and survive it, like I’ve seen Prot Warriors and Vengeance Demon Hunters do. I watched a Prot Warrior pull ALL OF THE TRASH in Ara’Kara to the first mini boss. It was like 50 mobs. He popped shield wall, all his offensive cooldowns, we blood lusted, and he did like 5mil DPS, health never really moved. I can’t imagine doing that on my Brewmaster lol.

But yeah, Brew has treated me very well thus far. I have complaints, but the spec isn’t holding me back. I should be able to hit 2500-2600 io this week.

Edit: I’m running Shado-Pan. The 10% flat damage reduction is incredible, 30% stronger vivifies (they’re critting for 1.6mil now) and Flurry Strikes is now 230 energy (was 300 energy) so it’s contributing a TON of damage. I also run Rushing Jade Wind instead of Spinning Crane Kick. SCK is pretty garbage now. Due to the 400% modifiers our spec tree has for Tiger’s Palm, they’re often critting over 1mil damage. My personal highest BoC Tiger’s Palm has been 1.6mil. Spinning Crane Kick does less damage-per-energy than Tiger’s Palm until a whopping FOUR targets. That’s nuts. At 5 targets, Spinning Crane Kick is slightly ahead. But dumping Tiger’s Palms when BoK, RSK, Kegsmash are on CD, I proc Flurry Strikes really often.

Edit-2: I have my details for my last City of Threads +8 and Siege of Boralus +8 still on my meter. I’m happy to send you some screenshots and discussion on Discord or something (cannot use Imgur, it says I have an ad blocker, and even turning off all my ad blockers it still gives me this error. Although I have to say, our healing breakdown is very similar. Our damage breakdown is not, but that’s not really relevant)

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OK, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt until this line.

If you’re failing in keys lower than +12/+13 or so, that’s a YOU issue and not a Brew issue.

You have to update this lie a little bit - this was probably true in Dragonflight, but now a Mythic 0 = Mythic +10 from previous expacs. A +12 or +13 now? That’s a +22 or +23 in the old days. I don’t care what class you’re playing, if your 5 man unit isn’t working perfectly together, you aren’t going to be able to carry a +12/+13 run.

Also, good call on the forum alt - but you forgot to hide your profile. I can see the last time you got KSM, it wasn’t this season. If you were doing +12/+13s, you’d have it already.

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I have KSM this season. I do not yet have KSH, that’s going to take some work. It will probably be a month before we’re all i625-i630 in my group and able to get the 3k rating.

Regardless, I stand by my contention. If you’re failing +6 dungeons, it’s not because of Brewmaster - it’s your gear, your group or your play. If you’re failing +10 dungeons, it’s not because of Brewmaster, it’s your gear, your group or your play. Now if you’re failing a +12 dungeon, that might very well be because of Brewmaster. The spec definitely has some limitations now, and I’m afraid, personally, that maining Brew is going to hold my group back if we climb much higher. But at a +10? No. We’re absolutely fine for a +10. Especially if you’re i620-i625? A +10 goes down like panties on prom night for Brewmaster.

People need to stop blaming the spec for being hardstuck in +6 dungeons.

Edit: I can’t find the achievement either on my monk. I’m 2300+ rating, but the only thing I can find is Season 1: Spelunker’s Supreme [Get 2000+ mythic+ rating in season 1]. There doesn’t appear to be a KSM right now. At least, I can’t find one. Maybe they moved it up?

Edit-2: Yep, found it. It’s under Achievements, Feats of Strength, Global and it’s called The War Within Season 1: Spelunker Supreme. It says “Global” but it only shows up on the character it’s earned on. Doesn’t show up on my forum alt, and I tested another level 80 of mine and it doesn’t show up for them either. Sorry, your investigative skills don’t work this expansion lol :frowning:

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stonevault is still aight, wait until you do grim batol.

these flamerenders got hands man

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lmfao
and just like that, any of the possible credibility you may have had, has just gone out through the window.

So, basically what you;re saying that only 10 people in the world are facing BREW issues and the remaining 20k BrM are the player issue. It’s 100% player issue that my stagger goes to 600k within 2 seconds on a pack.

GOT IT. THANKS lol

Bootyvault and Grim Bootyhole are the 2 of the lowest success % dungeons too.
SV is by far the hardest hitting one too for me.
I’ve done nearly all 8’s. I play with pugs with little interest to push. But at 8, it’s getting brutal.

CoT or Mists those are all easy. Even Siege doesn’t hurt nearly as much.

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If I can give some unsolicited advice - using BoC on Keg Smash is not usually the correct play, even in scenarios like this. Two seconds extra brew reduction is not that powerful. The Tiger Palm steroid from BoC is big damage, and big damage / cc is what makes pulls easier

“very little tiger palm” is also a bit of a concern, as essentially every single BoC should go into TP - and don’t forget TP also reduces brew timers

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yeah, by little I meant little with BOK combo specifically. I weave in TPs quite a bit for brews CDR

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I have 2 more ilvl than you, and I’m itemized for WW (12,000 haste) and I’m crushing dungeons you’re apparently struggling with. I don’t know what to tell you.

Brew is not incapable of +8s right now. Or +10. We have issues, but at these levels they’re not holding us back.

Now at +12? Sure. Brew is a problem. It’s arguably the worst tank in the game, and it will brick keys you probably could’ve slept through on a Prot Warrior. But a +8 Stonevault? Brother, that’s not a Brew problem.

Are you pugging? I play with a group that’s been together about 7 years now. That might be a bigger part of your issue? In your screenshot, your pres evoker did 772k overall. I have a +9 siege on my details right now our Resto Shaman did 552k overall. Are kicks getting dropped? Do you have Darkness or AMZ getting coordinated? Are your groups cycling through knock ups?

Of the list of reasons you’re sweating in a +8 at your gear level, I feel like Brew is probably behind a few other things.

But since I don’t believe Brew holds people back until higher keys, I have no credibility I guess. shrug

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“wow I can’t just claim that a 10-11 is easy as BrM even though I absolutely do not have the credentials to make that claim!!! what the heck!!!”

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I’m doing 8s and 9s without issue and have timed one ten - yet I’m ranked 652 on my server on io. That means 650 other Brewmasters are doing keys even higher than that. But we’re barely capable of doing +8s according to this forum.

It’s tiring, man. Is Brew the worst tank this season? Maybe? Prot Paladin is in rough shape too, but yeah, we might be the worst tank. Is the spec going to cause us problems getting titles this season? 10000%. But what is that, 0.2% of the player base?

Brew isn’t why you’re dying in an 8 (or a 10). It’s probably your gear, your group or your play. Maybe all three! Would you be having an easier time on a meta tank? Yes. But are literally 10,000 monks in the world completing 9s and 10s right now? Also yes.

Brew is way behind the other tanks, but as arguably the least played spec in World of Warcraft it gets nearly zero developer attention. It’s also an extremely gear dependent spec, heavily scaling. It struggles the first tier of every expansion, like clockwork.

Either accept you have to play better than the other tanks, accept that the spec will likely be bad the first year of each expansion and accept that Blizzard doesn’t care about the spec, or move on. But no, Brew isn’t why you’re struggling in +8s.

Good thing this forum doesn’t have downvotes or the legion of hardstuck 1600 rated monks would bury me beneath them.

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that’s a lot of words to explain how you should have the right to speak on BrM being easy in 10s/11s even though you’ve never done it yourself, and your only stat offered is that… 10k have done it on 9s/10s… okay?

Guess how many prot wars and guardian druids have done 9s and 10s

EDIT: I don’t even really disagree with you wholly, btw, you’re just annoying. Barreling into a convo with “well actually it’s easy” while you’re on a lvl 11 hunter doesn’t help anyone

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I’m not saying it’s easy. Brewmaster is likely the most demanding tank in the game. I’m saying it’s capable. I’m saying that the fundamental design flaws of the spec don’t really hold us back until a level of play that is beyond what 99% of players are engaging in (myself included).

I looked through his screenshots. He’s playing the spec fine. He’s beautifully itemized, he knows his buttons. So why is he struggling in a relatively* low level key? He immediately blames Brewmaster which I think is a bit unfair. Why not Blame your group? The damage overall seems fine (1.1 mil average for an 8 is decent). Were they kicking? Stopping? Using group utility? What’s the avoidable damage meter look like? Or perhaps the OP doesn’t realize that other tanks are also clenching their cheeks on some Stonevault pulls? Blood DKs and even Guardians can take an absolute beating in there too. We actually take way less damage than either of them. The trade off is we do a lot less healing, but if you do the math on DTPS and HPS it’s sort of comparable around those key levels.

But I digress. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m saying Brew can do it, thousands of Brews ARE doing it, and rushing to blame the spec for struggles at this key level seems premature.

Now if some chad wants to come in here with logs of his failed +14 Grim Batol and start ranting about Brewmaster, by all means.

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“I only accept arguments from BrM’s who are doing 14s, but give strong opinions myself having done one 10”

Have a good one

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John Madden isn’t exactly doing 200 yards rushing every game either, should he not be commentating?

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I’m John Madden

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Bro, you charge too much for yearly games that really only update rosters, why is that $70? Put pressure on EA. Thanks.

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Just did GB 8 ++
Actually wasn’t nearly as bad. My SV was like 1 minute away from being ++
But SV felt hella more brutal on damage intake, like day and night difference. So having GB run with huge focus on TPs combos over keg combos is not a fair comparison. (its in reference to another comment)

Just did GB 8++ and I was like - yolo - let’s drop the whole keg smash and let’s just focus A LOT on TPs

233 BoKs
210 TPs
I’d say about 30 combos were spent on kegs for that extra CDR on some pulls.

But my stagger never went BRRRRRRRR into the stratosphere, as it did in SV.

So I will need to go back into SV and test combo usage on TPs vs Kegs.

But looking at the DPS difference between the 2 runs - TPs contributed extra 40k DPS only. My overall damage dealt in GB is 200M more tho.

My stagger going to 500-800k within seconds has nothing to do with group composition though.
BRM discord is very active on this subject and some stagger scaling needs to happen.

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I don’t do the math myself, I listen to people who have proven themselves to perform better, or capable theory crafters

At the moment, it’s widely accepted that BoC should be going into TP basically 99% of the time. Unless there is a tank buster coming up and you desperately need a Celestial Brew, just use TP

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