Agreed on all points. I’m similar ilvl doing similar keys and feel the same regarding our strength. If people haven’t switched over to using Black Ox Brew, I highly recommend it. SCK sucks I basically only use it once to proc shuffle/start gathering mobs for ks, and speaking of crazy Tiger Palm’s I recently crit for 2.3 mil.
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Serenity Peak is a hellhole of pedants, disinformation and dooming. I finally stopped participating. The four people that know what they’re talking about are drowned out by the thousand morons.
And be more specific about “stagger scaling”. Right now, I stagger between 41 and 43% incoming physical damage. You would like to see that increased? Your stagger bar would go up to 8million even faster, friend. Do you mean you want purifying brew to clear more stagger? Do you mean you want magic damage also to be staggered? Those are both pretty common requests but “scaling” is the wrong term for either.
I think Brew needs:
- Way more Ox Statue orbs
- Huge Expel Harm buff
- Complete Shuffle rework
- Wider Keg Smash radius
- Significant Celestial Brew buff
- A talent to stagger some magic damage
- Fire Breath needs a substantial damage buff
- We have three defensive CD (Fort Brew, Dampen, Diffuse) and none of them feel strong enough to pull off the insane giga pulls most other tanks can manage. These need to be buffed and consolidated. I’d like to see a Brew that temporarily allows us to massively increase or stagger bar and automatically clears it when it expires. Make it 6min even, but let me pull the 50 packs at the beginning of Necrotic Wake like everyone else can.
“Stagger scaling” just feels too vague to really address our issues.
!!!
Careful, they’ll claim you’re one of my alts I’m just using to agree with myself or something.
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Scaling is the wrong term to use indeed.
I want PB to remove more stagger and overall duration to be increased.
Celestial Brew is 
right now. It needs to have a significantly lower CD or have a much quicker ramp up and simply higher absorb value. Much higher. Like 2 times higher.
and while I don’t mind being the lowest damage tank, either BoF or Charred Passions could see a damage buff. or just flat 3-4% aura buff
bears could do it in SL xD with zerg and Ursoc memory.
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Agreed. Celestial Brew is maybe 2mil absorb for me right now. That’s laughable. 30secCD? Can get it to about 22sec, but still. It does need to be doubled.
Charred Passions and Fire Breath would be the most elegant solutions to our damage problem, but we also desperately need a keg smash radius increase.
I’d like to see us be a REAL evasion tank. We have the lowest health of any tank, the lowest armor. We have this Mastery that increases our dodge chance, but Shuffle is garbage. We need shuffle to last like 2-3 seconds and not be consumed on dodge, or maybe let it stack? I don’t know. Blizzard would have to be delicate with how they go about reworking Shuffle but I think it’s horrifying how bad our MASTERY is for us… like jesus vers is boring.
This is a good segway to mention Brewmaster and group composition. I think Brew is very sensitive to group comp. We benefit more from Aug than any other tank does. We also work well with DPS that are more target capped, as we lack the survivability to pull 40 mobs. Specs like Unholy, Affliction etc that can nearly infinitely scale on pull size really suffer with a Brewmaster tank. DPS that are target capped like Enhancement Shaman (5) and Shadow Priest (8) are better suited for the types of pulls we do. Even Assassination rogue can only get out 3-5 Garrotes, so they work very well with us.
As for healers, Resto Druid has the best healing toolkit for Stagger, we benefit greatly from the 1.5% versatility from MotW and we need the combat rez. Resto Shaman and Pres Evoker both feel fine, too. But since we ideally have an Aug, I prefer to run with Rdruid or Rshaman. Disc Priest seems to struggle the most with the way we take damage. I do not invite them to my keys.
BrM was the highest damage tank in m+ for the last 2 weeks. This might not be the case anymore due to the Tuesday changes, but we’re far from the lowest
If all of the changes you are asking for went live, BrM would be incredibly broken. I think EITHER a slight armor buff, or a CB buff would get the job done
Shuffle is not consumed on dodge
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This is interesting. I saw the same thing. We’re undeniably the highest ST damage tank, but from my experience we get blown away on AoE by Vengeance DH. I’d love to see some logs or recordings of these Brewmasters that are dumping on DH damage. The DH I run with (I main spriest, so I try to always run with Chaos Brand) are doing as high as 6mil DPS on big pulls with Skardyn trinket. Like, what? I have never seen damage that high on my Brewmaster, even with Weapons of Order and Exploding Keg dumping damage.
I’ll be candid that my only source was Archon.gg, but it had BrM ranked as 1st out of 6 for tanks in m+ content (not m+ score, just dps)
I think we were lower end for raid content
Echo, Method and Liquid all ran BrM for race to world first prog, actually. I think we’re doing VERY well in a raid environment. It’s M+ we’re struggling.
But I have seen we’re amongst the highest damage tanks right now. I’m not seeing that in MY runs though, lmao. Skill issue, perhaps.
I think that was for the monk buff in raid
Highest I’ve peaked on dps meters was around 1.6 mil that my eye caught. At 4-6 mobs I sit at about 400-500k and some bigger double pack pulls about 1mil if executed right. And that’s with cooldowns WoO and Exploding.
Was watching some tank POVs and been seeing other tanks pulling sub 3mil on bigger pulls. Especially warriors, as they don’t fold on massive pulls with actual meaningful cooldowns.
and yeah, I’m specifically talking about M+, as I don’t raid so I got no idea what happens in raids.
if I really had to pick some “minor” adjustments and to “settle”
- Celestial Brew absorb increased
- BOK combo Keg Smash CDR increased from 2s up to 3 or 4. (since it’s a trade off for damage TP combo)
- increase magic stagger effectiveness (from 58% to at least 70%.
- Crane Kick charred passions damage buff.
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Ive been very nitpicky with my group selection as well when I’m pugging. Ideally, I’ll have a ret paladin for devo, Aug of course, and a Rshaman for that extra 3% DR via ES. The other dps doesn’t matter much, but if im being selfish, I’d take a balance druid for motw, target capped or no.
I just hate that as BrM I feel forced to include classes just because of the survivability it offers me. I don’t think other tanks are cherry picking which classes they feel safe rolling with.
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Literally none are. The only other tank struggling is Prot Paladin, and Paladin currently has several world first +15s. If you look at the top 20 keys run worldwide right now, most are Guardian druid, but 2 of the top 20 keys are Prot Paladin. There isn’t a Brewmaster in sight.
We are, without a doubt, the worst tanks in WoW right now.
BUT BUT BUT, 99.9% of players aren’t playing at a level where Brewmaster matters at all. That’s my point in this thread. If you’re failing +6s or +8s, don’t come blaming Brewmaster. We’re more than capable of those keys. Now if you’re failing a +15 because you simply cannot safely pull large enough packs to time the dungeon? Yeah, blame our spec. That’s 100% a Brewmaster problem.
P.S. - I just watched a Guardian druid on Youtube time a +11 Necrotic wake with no healer. NO HEALER. It was Guardian, three ret paladins and an enhancement. The Guardian was doing 2mil HPS. Can you imagine doing a +11 on Brewmaster with no healer? LOL
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But it’s so much easier to blame the class instead of figuring out what actually is going wrong…
Im not sure a brewmaster could do a 9 NW without a healer. I know for a fact brew cant do some of the same pulls that druid did even if you have a healer.
Brewmaster (and prot pally) are way behind. War and Druid are like easy mode on the same keys by comparison.
There are very skilled brewmasters that gave up already because they are holding thier groups back.
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I switched form Brew to bear because I am tired of being near the bottom of tanks (because of damage or Mit or both). Its just always easier to switch and do higher keys with an easier and better tank flat out. I have been playing this game since 2008 and The level of basic tank changes is awful compare to dps/healers. Brew need a flat rework, Stagger balance is stupid and always end up getting nerf. I love brew really do! But its has needed help form tier or X to be on pair to others than they still better with X
Their mastery is outdated and boring as hell. Its needs to matter. Oh look more dodge YAY! Have it increase CB amount and time?!?
Have crit increase dodge like bears (Lighting Reflexes: You gain Dodge equal to 100% of your Critical Strike form gear)
Have better tanky and dps talents. OS and WoO is just boring TBH
have an talent that let us have chance dodge hard cast spells?? They don’t always have to hit…DND rules.
or use The damm Ox pet as way to push more damage or become strong as an ox for an time?
The issue doesn’t lie in brew being bad, but in the fact that other tanks are much stronger. People always set standards based on the best, thus, brew becomes so bad in comparison to the best.
Sha on youtube has some amazing brew walkthroughs for each dungeon on +10-11.
Honestly, I’ve been avoiding any double pulls on my first run through of new highs to get a sense of how much time I really have to play with, to get an understanding of how much each pack hurts alone, and overall it seems to reduce deaths and save time over riskier pulls I see other tanks make.
This is especially true for double pulling on the very first packs before everyone has sorted out everyone elses kicking habits (GB, and SV are especially dangerous for first-pull-is-a-double-pull danger).
IDK if you are already tracking purified chi stacks, but when I added those into my rotational weak aura my self sustain got way better as my celestial brew shields got substantially bigger.
For SV, knowing which packs have the void bound dispoiller so you can diffuse magic is very helpful. If you search “diffuse magic” in the serenity class discord there’s a great weak aura for this season about what you can return to sender.
Another big thing has been determining which dungeons I want double ranged DPS in. The last boss of SV and the last boss of Arakara both heavily limit melee uptime, so I’d look into not going with a heavy melee comp in those dungeons in particular.
I’ve been running master of harmony; purifying 10% more stagger is almost as good as shadowpan’s 10% flat DR, you’re getting an additional celestial brew charge, your vivify’s are 15% bigger instead of 30% but you chi waves are twice as effective at damage/healing. it also offers more control over when you call in your bonus damage, so you can opt to build vitality for a tough pack and boss and just let it rip, which is something you can’t really do with shadow-pan. About 40% of the top brews on murlok have switched over to harmony.
I will say. I have seen good and bad brewmasters. And I don’t know enough about them with all the changes this expac but I started running with a small premade I made friends with.
The brewmaster was 615 ilvl and low io but was clearly a seasoned m+ runner from past expansions and they legit didn’t need much healing from me (on par with most prot warriors), even with some crazy giga pulls on fortified 9s and 10s last week. While also managing to do 800k DPS for 3 keys in a row.
I don’t know how, but there’s definitely some high skill ceiling magic that’s possible on them.
No scarab trinket either.
Aint noway. Are you saying that brews in this forum are a bunch of whiners who don’t know how to play their class properly?
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You seem to be confused on how stagger and shuffle works. You wouldn’t survive an M0 with only staggering 42%, much less a +9. Most likely you are staggering around 70% of incoming physical damage.
Shuffle has nothing to do with dodge, and if you don’t have close to 99% uptime on it, you will get splatted very quickly. You’re probably confusing it with Elusive Brawler.
Not necessarily. At lower keys, most wipes happen due to missed interrupts or poor mechanics. Which is a team effort, not a “You issue”.
Tanks are brought in based on missing buffs (with some exceptions). If WW or MW was performing really well, BM wouldn’t be needed. All tanks are viable for raids. I can’t think of a time where one wasn’t.
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