Range doesn’t matter, most mechanics you can ignore and just accidentally heal through. You never have a problem getting out damage. When the tank pulls 4 extra mobs into the pack you already opened up on, you are happy instead of sad. Stealth not breaking every time someone opens a door in Mists, or randomly otherwise. The hero trees feel good to interact with, instead of terrible.
It’s just so sad that rogue has been left is such an archaic playstyle with faulty talents, zero range, outdated regen system, bugs, and odd design that signifies the devs haven’t even looked at their core functionality in years, if not a decade.
Even looking at the updates they just sent to the PTR some 17’ish hours ago…and seeing rogue continually ignored further…might be the icing on the cake. I’m either rerolling or just flat out quitting.
lol…looking at the Ret forums. Their biggest complaint is that their kick is now melee range…because they stand 8-25 yards away from their target at all times doing their damage, so they miss kicks thinking they are in range for the kick. Imagine if that was all we had to complain about.
rogue plays just fine, especially in trivial content like delves. If they nerf Zekvir so you cant easily fill your vaults anymore, know that rogue can easily solo speedrun waterworks in T8
I believe they are fully capable of 86.4%of their damage at a range of 25 yards. At 8 yards, they can deal full damage. They just have to be a bit closer to kick.
You think because rogue isn’t as good as Ret it means rogue needs a rework? It couldn’t possibly mean you just, aren’t good at it? Are better at paladin? That rogue just isn’t for you?
This just has the same vibes as me going into a forum of a class I’ve never played, suck at, and just tell everyone it’s garbage and needs to be redone. Excuse you sir, but there are some people who are enjoying what we have.
Not saying we don’t need some help, but don’t come in here and propose we need this and that dramatic change when it’s apparent you aren’t really a fan of the class to begin with.
I’ve been playing rogue and shaman for over 17 years. I have nearly 450 days /played on my rogue. I have about 17 days /played on my ret. I have over 500 on my shaman.
Keep thinking what you’re thinking…or just realize that rogue is stuck in the past as far as game design goes.
rogue by far the easiest, you can just vanish and put threat on brann. or tricks brann.
like if you’re tanking stuff and dying thats literally on you. its the easiest delve diver ever.
if you want hard check out playing mage, you gotta kite like a boss and if you screw up you flop over. or evoker. its the same thing but you have more options
It’s not just Ret. Enhancement, Arms, Fury, Windwalker all play and flow much better than Rogue. Ret is just the simplest and “safest” one, but if you try p much any other melee you instantly see that Rogue is way past a comprehensive rework.
When ToT works it works but I have found that it often causes the boss to despawn or reset and Brann, at least mine, can die causing the boss to target you and if you Vanish you will reset the boss. So it is…tricky no pun intended
If the ability to re-direct threat is the main argument you have for Rogues being the “easiest” yet you have all classes doing Delves you must particularly bad at Hunter. Which also has a this capability but also has a pet (maybe 2) and can FD to drop threat completely as well on a shorter CD then Rogues and can, if things do go bad can still kite whie doing their damage.
I would argue two of the Rogue Specs fall in that category. Assassination has good gameplay flow (sans maybe the awkward Deathstalker application). Thier main issue is downtime between King’s Bane and Death Mark and maybe too much energy pooling.
Sub and Outlaw–Outlaw in particular–need reworks in the sense of restoring how they were initially designed;
Subtlety is the burst window/set-up spec that relies on Shadow Damage.
Outlaw is the sustained spec that relies on staying in combat and less on windows like Subterfuge.
It says something when your spec is projected to do really well in the DPS race, but the player count is still abysmally low when the initial logs are released.
Assassination doesn’t really have energy pooling it has absolute drought segments where you can’t do anything but slowly reapply your important debuffs and keep Envenom uptime as high as possible while auto attacking.
And this segment is just excruciatingly bornig and boils down to resource management, because if you overextend with that extra greedy mutilate/envenom you will find it hard to recover.
The only time it’s actually pleasant to play is during the deathmark window when you actually have energy to fuel the builder-spender rotation every other spec just does naturally at all times.
I kind of have an issue with this because I signed up for outlaw in legion (started in 2004 as a gnome rogue but followed friends FOR THE HORDE as a healer). I have the aotc for kj and argus from that era. I loved the spec then because I could talent snd and replace rtb and actually enjoy the playstyle. But every decision since bfa has been in overcomplicating the living spit out of the apl, buff tracking, or literally designing the class around addons (wago). Frankly, people who have bullheadedly stood by current outlaw from MfD sniping to SBS shotgunning to Crackh*shot, THEY didn’t like outlaw (combat) to begin with, and I am kind of tired of pretending that it’s me instead.
It’s weird, we have this guy in the group who decided to main Ret Paladin in the right expansion. TOPS each dungeon. I did try to get ahead in IL to see if it made a difference, but the only difference is mechanic knowledge, which is made moot since, I can’t move fast enough most of the time.
In the end though, I’m sort of happy, Warlock’s never been meta, my group see me as utility, and I had my top end run. Now I don’t really have to worry about anything. It’s… Weirdly nice, Like I’m free!
I was for several expansions so pressed to be top two, top, no.1 to push, to get good item levels, to improve my builds, conform to metas… Oddly enough this spurt of luck has broken me. Plus there’s value in me either way, since a DH and Warlock mesh well in most groups for damage, and I can get mechanics fast. I’m entering my Mentor phase now. XD
Sub is definitely moving back to that next patch. With Shadowblades and Flag on a 1.5 min cd, and with 3 charges of Symbols (which takes 1.5m to recharge), Sub does a ton of burst.
Problem is… it now plays very similar to Assassination. But on a 1.5m timer rather than 1/2m.
Not only are we playing with an outdated and archaic foundation, but then our stuff either get nerfed to the point of near-uselessness or simply bugged for months (years?) in an actual game that we pay to play, from an actual company worth nearly a hundred billion US dollars. If we can’t even get the attention to fix game-breaking bugs…what’s the chances we’re brought into the current decade any time soon?
