Nah. We need another ranged spec. I need another ranged spec, you need it too. Everybody here needs another ranged spec.
Trust me.
And you know why we need it? The same reason we need transmog. The same reason we need barbershops. The same reason mages need fire, frost, and arcane specs. The same reason hunters apparently needed a melee spec. The same reason they decided druids need to be able to do four different things. The same reason we apparently needed Vulpera, Pandas, Worgen, and four different kinds of Elves. The same reason we needed death knights and demon hunters. Etc, etc.
Because it would be both fun and cool. And because we DEMAND it.
If you want to argue it that way, technically BM is your ranged DoT sustain spec. It uses bleeds, and your pets, just like demo warlock pets, are essentially just a dot in disguise.
Players wanted to be able to choose if they wanted to focus on the feral side with cat dps, or the guardian side with tanking.
The devs decided that the best way to make this happen, was to add in a 4th spec.
In short, they wanted to make more players happy, by further allowing them to explore what each side of it meant.
And anyway, by your logic, the Hunter class did not “need” a melee-spec.
So, like with druids above, how would you go about the best way to make more players(hunters) happy?
Here, it would be to add back in what was taken away.
We never actually “need” any new additions to existing classes here.
It’s a matter of what players would like to see.
But, in order to solve the issue at hand with a divide amongst players, a 4th spec would be the optimal solution, and thus…as you say, is “needed” to achieve the desired outcome.
No where did I say that Hunters need a melee spec.
The best way to make everyone happy would be to add a 4th spec. All I’m saying is that it most likely won’t happen. Druids having the old Feral spec split into Feral and Guardian now is more substantial (Giving them access to further possibilities of Tanking and DPS) than if Hunter were to get a 4th DPS spec.
The Dev’s chose to make SV a melee spec by gutting a spec already played by many and just throwing a new one in it’s place regardless of how players at the time felt. Bad move on their part but it happened. As mentioned earlier they’re at a disadvantage now because if they rework the spec into what it was previously the current SV Hunters will be upset.
To answer your question about how would I make Hunter players happy I would indeed make a 4th spec to restore what was taken leaving both old and new SV Hunters happy.
However,
Blizzard is not the same company it once was, they’ve been out of touch with their audience for a while. From their point of view it is easier to just let Hunters remain at 3 specs than to go above and beyond and make a 4th spec knowing they’ll then get bombarded by other DPS only classes (Rouge anyone?) saying that they too should get a 4th no matter if they actually need it or not.
Were RSV’s robbed? Yes.
Does Hunter need a 4th Spec? No.
Does Hunter Deserve a 4th Spec? Absolutely!
Are we likely to see a 4th Spec added for Hunters? No.
What happened was at the start of Legion MM hunter was lobotomized to the point of being unplayable, as we had known it. Many many Hunters quit. Half way through the expac, blizz rethought their vision, and MM, although still gimped, became playable again. Then came BfA and more pruning. Kiting and aoe? Not if you play MM, not anything like when we were COMPETENT. Arcane shot tied to Aimed shot, OF COURSE that makes sense, since Aimed Shot is tethered to standing still. For. 2. .5. second. s. Legolas caught a Grey Ship, sailed West, And Gimli and Rexar went with him…MM, BM, SURV.
This is complete nonsense. For one, BM rotates around cooldown burst. Secondly, no, you can’t just write off pets as DoTs and count it as a DoT focus. They are entirely different thematically and even mechanically. You can’t multidot with a pet.
Another spec? I’d rather have a whole new class versus another spec. As someone else mentioned, there is enough specs in the game as it is. Have you ever tried to gear a Druid for all 4 specs? The azerite/corruption gear I have literally fills like 2 of my 30-slot bags. I’d rather have a whole new class (ranged would be fine) than another ranged hunter spec.
As far as what Nightlynx said, other players here may not like it but he’s right in my opinion. There is not alot of variation you can get with another hunter or archer class. You do only shoot a bow one way, as opposed to many different sword styles (rogue) 2-handed weapon styles (DK) or berserker (fury warrior) just to give some examples off the top of my head for why there is so many melee classes. There is much more diversity in melee combat than ranged. That said, I would still love to see a new ranged class.
I would agree that something like a Dark Ranger-based spec, should not be a part of the Hunter class. Mostly because Dark Rangers aren’t actual hunters in the game.
They use bows, yes. But that alone, does not make them hunters.
Anyway, you have your opinion on that, fair enough.
Keep in mind though that a new ranged class would not satisfy those who wants RSV back. As, RSV is a Hunter-based playstyle and spec.
It makes no sense why they should first take it away from the Hunter class, to then go and add it to another one. For one, this would force all players who have asked for that playstyle, to reroll into another class. To make an entirely new character.
Again, that’s an opinion he/she, and you as well, are free to have.
That’s not actually a class/spec-based problem.
That’s a problem that stems from the fact that BfA has brought in waaay too many e.g. progression-systems for us to work through. And for us to rely on for player power.
Also note that this has been more of an issue for hybrid-classes since the early days. Simply put, their specs serve for different roles in combat. That logically require them to(if they want to be optimized) bring enhancements that suit all desired playstyles/roles.
You know why such logic is flawed?
Because as far as player preferences go, and how class and spec design affects it, what he talked about there, is only 1 small part of why players want something out of their chosen class/spec.
There’s only one way to shoot a bow or gun? That’s just about the aesthetics/visuals.
You also have the general theme and the intended fantasy, it’s meant to achieve.
You have mechanical design and ability interactions.
And much more.
All of which, plays into why players pick a specific spec/playstyle/class.
As an example, if we take the aesthetics of firing a gun/bow, ofc it’s more subtle than looking at a spellcaster conjuring their magic.
Guess what…many players prefer such subtleties.
Many players(myself included) can’t stand the aesthetics of something like a Havoc Demon Hunter which looks like they’re having waay to much energy to spend(if you know what I mean).
I could go waaay more into detail here about why it’s good to look at more than just one part of the design(in the case of Nightlynx, that part being just looking at the visuals of firing a ranged weapon), but I hope that this is enough to make a point.
You have a point here but honestly how hard is it to reroll these days? Especially with the leveling revamp in Shadowlands, leveling is going to be easier than ever.
See when they first released all these systems I had the same feelings, but I do feel that they have smoothed out the rough edges as the expac has gone on. Well not so sure on corruptions because lately all I’ve been doing is leveling alts but as far as azerite gear I usually get the traits that I need.
Please enlighten me on the theme of old school SV. I’m genuinely curious.
Many players have invested years into a character.
Being forced to change/reroll just because the devs decided to move a spec to another class. I mean, if you think it’s bad now, imagine the outrage following something like that.
We have even seen some of it with how they moved, what was it, Morph from locks to DHs?
Imagine what it would be like if they move entire specs.
Anyway, it’s not hard to reroll. But this is an MMORPG, and people get invested in their characters. I for example, have had my main hunter since vanilla(original WoW).
I don’t want to be forced to reroll just because the devs decided to move my preferred playstyle to another new class.
Wasn’t the issue about how you needed 2 full bags worth of azerite-gear and corrupted gear to cover all 4 specs on your druid?
In the early days, you often needed multiple sets of gear depending on which role you filled(mostly as a hybrid-class).
Today, due to the e.g. systems of this expansion, it’s gotten even worse.
Even for pure dps-classes.
Optimal azerite traits for raids? That’s 3 pieces for 1 spec. At least.
You play all 3 specs in raids(or however many)? Then that’s another 6 azerite-pieces right there.
You also do M+? That’s another 9 pieces(probably a bit less as some might be optimal both in raids and M+).
You do PvP? Maybe this requires even more pieces?
Ofc you can go and reset azerite-traits at the vendor, but if you often switch, then that’s gonna require a bit of gold.
Anyway, my point here is that this system is not designed for you to want to switch traits on a specific piece a whole lot. Meaning you’d be better off, carrying multiple pieces in your inventory.
Add to that the X amount of corruption-items you might need depending on the fight or type of content you engage in. If you want to optimize your character that is.
The short version, is basically this:
The last time we had RSV, it’s theme was basically according to those bullet points.
Ofc it wasn’t as fully realized as what you can see with specs and their respective designs of today(due to what was done going into Legion).
And if you go back and look at the old RSV from for example Warlords of Draenor…again by today’s standards, at the very least it’s core features would need spec-specific talents, and even more, in order to fit the modern game.
As in WoD, we had talents that were mostly shared across all the specs.
But in short, the actual theme of, and the intended fantasy with RSV was that of a Munitions Expert, and a Trapper.
In case you did not check it out…
I decided to put together a concept for RSV, for how it could look like if given the same treatment of Spec Identity/fantasy, as all other specs got, going into Legion.
Note, below are just my suggestions, based on my experience with the old RSV and on feedback given by other players.
Original Post:
MMO-post(would recommend this one to get a good overview of the entire concept):
