Judgement of the Crusader and the Philosophy of Vanilla is Vanilla

If it’s in the 1.12 client, it should be in Classic.

If our philosophy is that we shouldn’t do class balance because it’s not our place to try to “fix” things, then that shouldn’t stop applying just because we find something kind of broken that not many knew about in 2006.

Well geared Fury Warriors in 1.12 already throw the idea of class balance out the window anyway.

That said it never even occurred to me to try this in Vanilla, so I would like to hear from Blizzard about what the answer actually is.

I’m going to laugh my *** off if Ret goes from “worst” DPS to one of the best because of this.

Can try it out on a Pserver to get some rough DPS numbers, see if it’s even worth the effort of trying.

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If I remember right from people who have tried it on private servers, it actually helps Smite Priests more than it does Ret Paladins since a Smite Priest’s damage is 100% Holy.

Which I’ve always wanted a holy caster spec that is damage focused =P

So the real question become if Smite Priests buffed in this fashion do more DPS than standard Ignite Mages.

Also, Ret has a Holy damage increase Aura. 10% iirc

Ignite Mage is a weird thing for DPS because it intakes the DPS of multiple Mages.

Though I imagine a 6 JotC Smite Priest could at least push Warlock DPS. Smite actually does really good DPS, it’s more of a mana issue than anything else.

and yeah, if Smite Priest became a viable thing then you’d see Ret Paladins wanted for Sanctity Aura.

And yes, I was the one who started all of this back on Nost and yes our top DPS by far was our Smite Priest who was getting like 3k Smite hits and 4.5k crits :slight_smile:




This is the type of stuff I hope blizzard doesn’t see as a bug and try to “fix”. Assuming it did work like that in the original game.

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I don’t see how this could ever, under any circumstances, be considered a bug. Different rank spells were a part of the game, as was casting different ranks to get varying results of the same spell. If rank stacking debuffs is a bug, than so is healers using different rank heals to conserve mana.


It may actually be possible in actual Classic and here is why.

Before 1.7 when hunters got “Changed” if you spec’d into Spirit bond (it was a spell at that time, not passive pet activated)

Any way, you were before 1.7 able to use multiple ranks; I think, I remember there being 3 ranks…

Any way you could stack them. It effectively made us gods because our pet literally healed us with each and every attack.

This is the primary impetus for why hunter pet attack speed being “high” was truly important because that value per attack was static, meaning faster attacks = more healing.

All that changed after 1.7 for us, but as I understand it paladin debuffs only got minor tweaks and adjustments.

After reading the tool tips for your seals / judgements; it’s kinda obvious that different ranks of the same spell could be exacted on a target by multiple paladin.

Interesting because that would massively increase paladin damage… Seal of Righteousness looks like it would be BAR-NONE the king based on the quick hair top calculator math…

With any luck this is the interaction you guys have, but who knows… I know one thing; Blizzard will get the spell interactions correct because they have a REAL working 1.12 server and client to fact check with.

lmao paladins are some of the funniest players in classic, especially killerduki and theloras.

Totally unintentional type of being funny though.


for reference:

#7Oct 13 2005 at 12:31 PMRating: Decent
961 posts
Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn’t have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.

-Judgement of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.


don’t say his name, you’ll summo - OH MY GOD, ALREADY?


Dude, it’s actually kinda impressive yes no? I am no joke laughing my rear off right now…

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I swear I would too. It would be the most ‘Classic’ thing ever for the … ‘mocked laughing stock of dps’ to get theorycrafted into the “Every raid must have at least 8 Rets” masterclass of the universe.

Please let this happen. I don’t even play a pally and I want to see this.


Here’s the thing… There were 3 paladins on my server back in actual Vanilla who were flat out the most dangerous thing on the battle field.

If you got inside of their repentance radius it was GG buddy because you were gonna get 2 or 3 shot…

I have no idea how they actually did it, but I am telling you they were the most destructive high burst class in game. They made geared to the teeth warriors, rogues and mages look like a sad little joke.

And before you can ask the question, NO they were not Reckoning, they had repentance.

pre or post patch 1.9 though?

repentance was originally the 31 point PROT talent and most Reck Bomb Paladins grabbed it

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End of Vanilla was when they were at the peak of their lethality. I remember being in Sillithus shortly after the gate opening and it was before 1.10 for sure, and watching the devastation and thinking dear God, that’s broken.

Okay, OP here. I mained a Vanilla pally. I totally get the pally pride. I have it too. Theory-crafting stacking JotC is fun, especially bringing the priests into it. And I did welcome such talk.

But, what is of greater concern to me is the principles involved with prioritizing what was possible vs. what was done when one considers that Blizzard is attempting to deliver an authentic experience. Surely, any rational observer can see that there is merit to both sides of that argument. I would like to know what side Blizzard would take and why. (Maybe it’s already been said?)


Love all the

Could do with a little more

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well, I’ve been actively trying to get an answer one way or the other for several years now as like yourself, I want an authentic classic experience too:

I even went so far as to file GM tickets on battle.net but wasn’t able to get an answer:


Likewise, I also asked about Judgement of the Crusader stacking as well to no avail:


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