It took alittle bit of doing on my part I’ll admit, but I’m all the better for it. I made a post on the server forums awhile back, no luck but that could I just been me or timing. I tried a few guild by asking in trade and I ran into what you’re saying and had to hop around abit. Then believe it or not I used the guild finder and also the community finder for other things I enjoy.
The guild in I’m now has dedicated raid times and events but even outside of those specified times there’s people asking for mythics, pick up raids and delves.
People want automation to find a group for them, pick the dungeon for them, port them to the dungeon, then hand out a small reward at the end. But when it comes to “punishments” suddenly that’s too much automation and Blizzard needs to “do something.”
The solution to this problem is to form your own groups so you can have complete agency over who gets kicked and why plus there’s no debuff. Or three or more of you queue up for LFD and ensure none of y’all get kicked.
The easiest way to find a group of like-minded people is in a guild.
I agree with most of what you’re saying but people can keep pushing that boulder up a hill. It’s not going to change, take everything you’re saying and apply it to the real world for example. It’s just a fact of life. I don’t like it and I don’t agree with it but it’s never going to change.also the bottom line is My 2am raid also wouldn’t of happened without said guild, it was also my first normal raid I’ve ever done since vanilla. I’ve never done guild activities before now so it has made a major change in my gameplay. Not all guilds are equal but it’s up the each person to find the one that fits.
If we as individuals are representatives of the whole than it stands to reason my experiences could very well be other people’s experiences as well.
You’re playing an MMORPG. It’s not hard at all to find a guild to progress in and with. I found my current guild within a day or so of posting on Recruitment & Community Discord. I’m 8/8N and 5/8H - People are just “shy” or have “social anxiety”
I’ve joined some pretty friendly guilds on my alts, the issue is the core groups have already been set. The few times I’m like “Anyone up for a 0 or +2?” everyone is already running things w other guildies. I’m not mad. It is what it is . I have run some content w these people, but it’s few and far between.
It is important to understand that not everyone can just walk away from a toxic environment, because the options are limited.
A bullied school kid, may not have another affordable school close by, a wife can´t just leave her kids to get away from a violent husband…
At the same time, if you always walk away, the bullies will just become more confident in their actions and the toxicity will keep on growing with even worse outcomes.
Victim blaming is just not cool folks, why not blame the agressors for once, let them move away, let them only play in guilds, let them have deserter…
Let’s go with what you’re saying for the sake of argument. ( I agree by the way)
It’s inevitable for cliques to form because people make friends. It’s a social game, in order to do social content you’re going to have to be social. I love that wow has moved more into solo because I’m not a social person but that’s just the reality of it. What I’m trying to say here though is to attempt to make yourself apart of that smaller group that does stuff. It won’t help everybody, but it will help those who are trying to do things. Optimistically speaking once that happens then you’d have the ability to bring more people in, lest you stay in the clique and perpetuate the issue at hand, sort of.
It’s not that I don’t want to be friends with every guild member, but if I get along with a small group of people then thats enough people to do the content I want. Take a job for example, people migrate to small groups, just got to find yours within the guild.
All in all what I’m trying to say in this thread is I’ve been in the same spot as most people on the forums, finally finding a guild I like solved a lot of those issues and I wanted to encourage people to do the same. Rather than go on forums and talk about how much they hate pugs.
You’re talking about two completely different situations. This isn’t a situation like the one you’re describing or some poor sap stuck in a job with a toxic boss and they can’t quit because there’s no where else to work in their small town…
This is a computer game. Walking away is 100% an option.
And this is assuming the person getting kicked is the victim. Maybe the other 3 to 4 people were the victim.
Edit: Btw, as a woman myself, I can’t stand it when someone says a woman can’t get out of an abusive relationship. This kind of attitude is why they stay.
Indeed. It may be a truth. But it’s a truth about as useful as telling poor people to just be rich to solve their problems as well. And if you’d actually read any of my posts, you would have realised that, instead of clutching at a strawman like every other person that is so enamoured with gaslighting themselves in this thread.
I feel like players mess up more than mechanics, systems and devs.
Guilds aren’t quite as “necessary” as they once were, but I think it’s more the player attitude and outlook that are the biggest determining factor.
I’ve mentioned this before, but we have a group of about 10-14 peeps who have been together since 2001? 02?. We game together all the time, organizing runs, helping one another out. Much like a guild. Except we are all spread out across 4 or 5 guilds.
forced socialization when every single new mechanic in the game aside from “communities” (aka streamers and carries) has been to mitigate needing this for success since basically vanilla.
the game used to be that you NEEDED a guild, it was REQUIRED for any progression or you lived and died by pug raids which were full of favoritism and corruption and lead to the changing of how loot works repeatedly.
now that is not the case.
obviously a guild would be a smaller subset of “general population” and more effective at success in an MMO.
But you use the word “effort” incorrectly here. It’s not an issue of effort, it’s an issue of not wanting to or being able to socialize. I don’t want to make friends with people to play this game. I don’t want to feel obligated in any way over a game.
I went through that with “raid nights” and “grind nights” and whatever when the game was a 2nd full time job managing a guild of hundreds of people to ensure progress. Blizzard should have been paying GMs and officers at that time since so many people’s entertainment relied on them organizing things because the game had no tools to help with that.
The breaking point for most players was very pronounced, you can pinpoint the expansion, when they leaned a bit too much on “solo sustenance” and people generally felt “meh” about organized play.
So now blizz has one foot in pandering to casuals and a pinkie toe in “making progression compelling.”
They know the dam has broken, but it’s simply too risky to go all in on deleting progression for the sake of people who beg for things like delves only to realize (fairly slowly at that) that it is bait and switch regarding progression.
the other final fantasy MMO handled it well via linkshells. you could effectively be in multiple guilds at once.
people need to face it, all a guild ends up being is an agreed upon calendar, a system of item gathering and distribution, and communications. with potentially leadership making personnel decisions.
the game has never needed to adapt to the idea of being in multiple guilds to the point that being in a guild has basically been eroded into “the funny name under your name”
The main issue here is that if you don’t schedule your life around wow, a guild has limited use unless it is so large it’s not much more efficient than just using group finder
Everything you’ve said is irrelevant and to compare whatever you’re comparing to poor people is insanely ignorant.
What’s stopping someone from posting on Recruitment & Community Discord? You’ll find a guild in less than a day, maybe a few days max and you WILL progress with them - this is factually objective.
“Joining a guild is work”
“They’re on a strict schedule”
“They ask too much”
These people are making it sound like every guild has Liquid standards. I know there are guilds out there where they’re like “meh, show up or don’t. It’s whatevs. Wanna do a m+? No? That’s cool.” I joined one in SL when I couldn’t stand toxic pugs anymore to get my slime cat mount. I didn’t submit an application. I just went the forum you’re talking about and said “hey can I join?” And they’re like “sure!”
. I have run some content w these people, but it’s few and far between.