Jaina does not personally kill Sunreaver civilians

Then you must not have been to Stormwind at all during BFA if you missed that.

Except I have. I’ve been in Stormwind and played Horde questing both. Baine and Mayla never hid from the Horde in Stormwind for several months, the only time either were present is when they were watching the meeting between Wrathion and Anduin.

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You’re referring to the Old God stuff towards the end. But they were already there before that, when Sylvie had her sights set on Baine. Mayla kept him company.

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Correct.

Jaina does not kill anyone but the hostile Sunreaver militants who attack the PC and Jaina first. The rest, she has them arrested and taken to Violet Hold, as is her legal right as the ruler of Dalaran and supreme leader of the Kirin Tor (all facts).

But since people don’t actually play this game, maybe they read the books, so just wait for Chronicles IV that will confirm all I just said. :slight_smile:

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It’s always questionable when one pities the poor Sunreavers but not Harry the baker in Theramore, who was simply going about his business to feed his family. An entire city was razed to the ground, not just Theramore, by the way.^^

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The Horde Sunreavers did nothing to compromise Dalaran’s neutrality. They simply did as their blood oaths required as members of the Horde and didn’t participate in combat directly.

The Divine Bell was not of her concern. It doesn’t matter if it went through Dalaran after being stolen from Darnassus. If Thrall or Malfurion walked through Dalaran would that be a crime? They are walking WMDs with Malfurion being canonically worse than the bell.

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You’re referring to the Old God stuff towards the end. But they were already there before that, when Sylvie had her sights set on Baine. Mayla kept him company.

No she didn’t. Neither Tauren leader was ever in Stormwind hiding from the Horde. Have you done the Horde questing experience in BFA?

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Weird Horde players will be like 'yeah we genocided Teldrassil and bombed Theramore and blighted Southshore and invaded Gilneas and slaughtered Brennadam, but what about that time Jaina glitched and killed some civilians?! Both sides are equally bad!"

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Grabs :popcorn:

Garrosh did nothing wrong!

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@OP

I mean, they had Jaina start out the gate with an Arthas quote, from the Culling of Stratholme.

“This entire city must be purged.”

I’m not sure why they patched her at all, there’s no reason to shy away from it if you’re bothering to go to the Arthas Culling parallel.

I’m more annoyed Jaina was never held accountable for taking over Dalaran by force, and ditching for the Legion invasion. The only entity that held her accountable was Kul’Tiras and even then she got forgiven.

I try not to hold the ideas of different writers against the characters but I can’t take her seriously.

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Yes they did, they used Dalaran as a staging ground to steal the Divine Bell from Darnassus for the Horde war effort, proven by a portal linking Dalaran to Darnassus found by Jaina right after the foul deed was done.

Actually, it does matter, because Jaina declared that Dalaran would be neutral and her word was absolute as the leader of Kirin Tor and ruler of Dalaran. However, the Sunreavers defied Jaina’s decree by using Dalaran as a staging ground to steal the Divine Bell from the Alliance for Hellscream, thus breaking Dalaran’s neutrality and Jaina’s decree.

So Jaina had them arrested and taken into custody at Violet Hold.

Not really that complicated to understand.

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Theramore had the majority of its civilians evacuated and became a military target, even Baine leaked the attack to the Alliance so they would retreat but they stayed. The Alliance kept reinforcing it threatening the statu quo and forced the Horde hand.

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And yet, in Siege of Orgrimmar, it’s revealed that Hellscream kidnapped several Theramore civilians, who were enslaved and tortured by the Kor’kron, or just straight-up executed publicly.

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The Horde Sunreavers did nothing to compromise Dalaran’s neutrality. They simply did as their blood oaths required as members of the Horde and didn’t participate in combat directly.

Correct, unironically. The vast majority of the Sunreavers knew nothing of what a few rogue agents did and in fact always hated Garrosh just as much as they hated Jaina for what happened. It was always just a few rogue agents, never the entire organization.

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The lore on those is unclear as they mostly replaced the horde figures which made more sense through the lore. For all we know they could have been spies.

One twists and turns the lore as one pleases. Unfortunately, Blizzard was never really good at telling a story either. One of the many reasons why the two-faction system has been an absolute failure from the start, always leading to toxicities among players and still does.

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First time I’ve seen this funny headcanon. Anything to white-wash the Horde, huh?

But I’ll give you this, it’s the first time in 11 years that I’ve read “Actually those citizens might have been spies”.

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Using Dalaran as a port to transport a weapon does not violate neutrality as long as Dalaran itself was not providing said weapon. Especially Jaina herself didn’t know about it. Members of the Horde simply moved it through the city. If Dalaran had intercepted the Bell and had it stored away in their vaults it would be a different story. They only discovered it afterward. Too late for them to be in the right to enforce any policy on the matter.

The Sunreavers only facilitated transportation. That isn’t a crime unless Jaina specifically ordered them to seize it on behalf of Dalaran, which would have actually violated neutrality.

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I like it, we need more faction conflict! It makes the game’s lore feel alive.

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I’m just pointing out that no source confirm their origins, they are only speculations.

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It’s always questionable when one pities the poor Sunreavers but not Harry the baker in Theramore, who was simply going about his business to feed his family. An entire city was razed to the ground, not just Theramore, by the way.^^

The only things wrong with the destruction of Theramore is that A. It didn’t happen sooner and B. That he used the Bomb on it instead of just taking it through conventional measures. Garrosh had every right and reason to see it as just another Alliance military stronghold on his doorstep, because that is -exactly- what it was.

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