It's time to go back to MoP to SL Talent System. (lets talk about it)

Community General Discussion
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I know that the talent tree system seems really fun, and it can be… but lets be real. Once the talents are chosen, you almost never pay attention to them again. The vast majority of players no doubt use cookie cutter builds, which makes the entire talent tree worthless for the choices presented if they all choose the same as a Rank 1 player that took the time to read all the millions of choices.

Let’s get to the point though, the talent trees are simply too large and too complicated (on the surface). This is a serious pain point for new and returning players. They see the complicated mess and thousands of talent choices… they have to read each little choice just to understand that it affects some other choice. The talent trees are just too chaotic to go through sometimes, when all you want to do is play the game.

Blizzard in the past, made WoW casual friendly and that’s why it’s so popular. Simplicity was a key aspect. The way the old MoP to SL talent system worked was perfect IMO. It gave some interesting options/choices but nothing was overwhelming for casuals, and new players alike.

With the newest talent trees re-introduced in DF to now, I can’t get my buddy to re-sub because he looked at the talent trees, and realized that it would take hours to read all the talents and setup his bars… he justed wanted to play not read a book, or waste time on 3rd party sites just to figure it out before he could play.

I myself sort of understand the frustration after the latest patch. I log in and a few of my classes had their talent trees reworked so I had to spend the next few hours on each character reading each talent and figure out what changed and why spells do what they do.

It’s just irritating but once you read the talents and choose the abilities, outside of a few minor talent changes you NEVER look at them again until the next rework, which leads me to wonder why we bother making them so complicated in the first place?

4 or 5 rows of 3 choices per row… 3 PvP talents… that was the perfect system.

Heroes of the Storm while it didn’t do well, has a perfect talent system that works and creates variety while not being a turn off to new players.

The talent tree bloat also adds complexity for blizzard, they have to balance all the millions of talent choices, leading to imbalance because who can even balance that?

In short, less is more… IMO

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Oh the humanity!! Faints

People do that with the mop ones too. Now they just have to click the starter build and get back to zugging.

Probably best they stick to CoD if that was gonna take hours.

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You’re not understanding, i’m not saying its horrible to have to ready something. I’m saying the way it looks and is setup is confusing and time consuming for old returning players, and new players alike… I’m sure you can understand that. I’m pretty sure my post made that clear…

The point I was making is that all talent trees become cookie cutter, so why make them so complicated as to turn away new and returning players? There is a such thing as too many choices… this is a perfect example of that.

If you want to setup your bars with macros and keybinds and have a proper build and understand it for end game PvP as well as PvP, you’re going to be spending hours looking it up if you’re new to the talent system.

When the newest patch hit, I spent hours reading and trying new talents on my Ret Paladin. That’s pretty typical with a talent tree the size of these new ones.

The point is, its overly complicated for no reason. It creates balance issues, it frustrates new and returning players, and doesn’t do anything interesting once setup… It’s complication just so they can say they did something different. It’s all fake, and it’s un-needed bloat to a game that was supposed to be new and casual player friendly.

Even I’m pretty hardcore, and I don’t like the mess of these talents when trying to learn an alt, or setup a new talent spec.

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I severely disagree with this entire post.

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+1
I’m attributing a lot to why there’s always 1 DPSer doing less dmg than my tank in mid to high keys being the current “trees” (very loose term) opens up a lot of chance to make bad choices.
Hard to make bad choices with the much easier to customize and adjust on the fly, MOP talents (that didn’t take the whole screen when you opened the pane either).

This game is being designed away from what made WoW great, and the participation and sub numbers on the GDC chart show it.
Do better, modern blizz. Put your egos aside, and re-adopt the better systems that were in place before you cleaned house in 2020 to make way for, uh, “modern hires”, for a “modern audience”.

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i disagree
i think the issue simply is that talent nodes arent balanced whatsoever, there are countless completely useless dead talents and you might have like 2-3 choices in the spec trees if you’re lucky due to that

class trees are somewhat mostly fine, where you can make real choices

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The new talent trees are one of the best things to come to WoW in the past decade.

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I found multiple builds I needed in about 5 minutes.

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I pay attention to them a lot. I have multiple builds for certain situations.

It was a terrible boring system and was hated by the majority which is why the original talent system returned.

Nope.

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They are boring as hell… does not change play style even slightest

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Those same people would be doing bad no matter what the talent trees setup were.

Doing below the tank in damage as a dos means it’s a player issue.

Incorrect. The game trying to dumb itself down like in WoD is what almost killed the game.

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I’d lose interest in the game again.

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Maybe stop playing the easiest class in the game then?

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Wait… so if this thread is anything to go by, the talent trees aren’t the issue… Paladin is.

So far its just 3 paladins that are against the trees.

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Even the easiest class still has flavor and depth because of the new talents.

The old talents they want back were immensely biased and cookie cutter.
Currently you can still play around with builds and still do solid damage, play with ccs and mobility and defensives…

Idk how anyone could want the most cookie cutter, basic talent system wow has ever seen.

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I agree. Just sounds like they don’t have any viability in their builds.

Agree.

Easier to blame anything but one’s own actions.

Off topic but how do you like being dracthyr as hunter?

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Good grief, could you be more condescending? A new player isn’t inherently stupid. They generally understand the basic concepts they’re in for, both from experience with other games and from cultural osmosis about WoW specifically. Reading isn’t some gargantuan chore. New players can read and put things together, because that’s what we all did.

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I wouldn’t go back to the mop system. But there are definitely a host of talents that are 100% total bait traps in many spec trees that require deletion. Ret pally for example has at least 3 or 4 talents that could be deleted straight away that would have zero affect on the class.

Also the fact that interrupts are still not baseline is a massive fail.

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Old talent trees were unsatisfying and killed any enjoyment I had in leveling my army of alts. Regardless of what system they use, cookie cutters will always exist because the die hard players will always find the optimal build down to the last DPS. They did it before, they’ll do it forever.

I personally find enjoyment in getting a talent point every level to put into something. I even enjoyed it back when I got that 1% armor in classic. It wasn’t much, but it felt good. Just like these ones feel good to put points into.

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Taking out room for error would bring their performance to a better place instead of giving them so many options to fail. There’s no argument here. Yes, the general population is bad at this game, but take a second to think about what I just said.

Blizzard intentionally implements possibilities to waste gold for example. This is in the same vein.

Think.

So you agree with me that this game is being designed away from what made WoW great and you gave an example. Thank you.