It's time.. Frost DK and 2 handed weapons

[Stohlja-zuljin]

What? Lol

Weird

[Kindwolf-emerald-dream]

I said, lol you get upset at words, and make broad sweeping generalizations because of that.

I feel sorry for you. Lol triggered Monk tears.

[Stohlja-zuljin]

Yikes.

You’re strange.

[Kindwolf-emerald-dream]

Probably?!? At least I’m not a fascist troglodyte.

[Eithres-doomhammer]

You’ll be happy to hear that Unholy, the spec that Arthas embodied the most, is still solidly a two-handed spec.

you’ll be happy to know that you can go fornicate with a goat. Unholy isn’t frost and isn’t the image of a “cold and frozen” death knight. Unholy is a festering, stinking, rotting pile of crap and i don’t care if it does more DPS than every other class in the game put together i’ll never play unholy.

by thematic design unholy should have been the dual wield spec already.

The majority of the Death Knight themes and lore, especially that of Frost and Blood, were created for Wrath

i know. i was playing back then and switched from frost mage to frost DK becuase blizzard added the frost elemental to my mage and tried to turn me into a pet class against my will. but you know what DK’s had back then?

two handers. you even got a 2 handed iconic death knight sword when you created the character.

[Lastarria-emerald-dream]

_Frost_mourne. It really doesn’t get any more iconic than that.

2H for 9.0 Please.

[Hvd-the-scryers]

everyone start voicing 2hd frost and 2hd enhancement to be unpruned.

[Eonanus-dalaran]

you’ll be happy to know that you can go fornicate with a goat.

Approved.

two handers. you even got a 2 handed iconic death knight sword when you created the character.

Legit af. My mog guide got 3 different 2h swords and axes of all different specs that i got before phasing into stormwind to get spit on and have rotten produce thrown at me.

And more added during legion. Also 3 spec weapons all 2h.

2H for 9.0 Please.

2nd that emotion.

everyone start voicing 2hd frost and 2hd enhancement to be unpruned.

No idea wtf you getting at here bruh.

[Manarri-sargeras (Manarri)]

How many frosty things did Frostmourne do? It stole souls, and channeled the will of Ner’zhul as a part of the overall armor. That’s
about it. The name is a bit nonsensical if you actually think about it beyond the surface level.

[Kaktar-icecrown]

I’d settle for being able to transmog into a 2h. I miss the looks the play style is the same if you take the icecap build.

[Draith-emerald-dream (Draith)]

Two hand frost can stay dead.

Ignorant and Wrong… The Wargon was correct, Your tears are noted and tasty Moving on…

[Signey-wildhammer]

You’ll be happy to hear that Unholy, the spec that Arthas embodied the most, is still solidly a two-handed spec.

Ah yes, unholy. The spec that uses a two-hander to tickle enemies while its pets and magic spells do the real work. Solidly two-handed.

[Outbreaks-emerald-dream (Outbreaks)]

Frost will never be 2 Handed again. They aren’t going to open that can of worms with Mage Tower appearances. If they did, you would have class after class begging to have their weapons changed.

That all being said, I like that Frost is DW. It is the weakest spec DK has to offer and watching people cry and whine about it brings a smile to my face.

[Draith-emerald-dream (Draith)]

They aren’t going to open that can of worms with Mage Tower appearances. If they did, you would have class after class begging to have their weapons changed

I hear you loud and clear. And sadly you’re probably right. However I know in a Q&A Ion Hazzikostas did say that were going to relax transmog regulations starting with the ability to hide every slot (except pants) in 8.2 So whatever that means beyond hiding the slots, only Blizzard knows for sure. Only time will tell if that means relaxing Legion Artifact appearances as well… although I highly doubt it…

I know it’s been suggested many times, regarding the mage tower appearance to just blow the 1h weapons Frost currently uses up into a larger scale version of a 2h weapon. Honestly I think that this could easily be done. And I see no reason why they shouldn’t give people what they clearly have been asking for…

[Outbreaks-emerald-dream (Outbreaks)]

I was okay with Frost getting 2h back until lesser DKs began asking for the real DK spec (Unholy) to get DW. The cause lost all of my support at that point.

[Eithres-doomhammer]

Frost lacked any two-handed support or synergy

don’t cite the deep magic to me, witch! i was there when it was written!

i rolled a DK on day 1 of wrath. you’re flat wrong. we started with a 2 hander no matter what spec. it’s still a two-hander shown at class creation screen for death knights. obliterate originally -required- a two hand weapon to even use. dual wield was actually the -tanking- spec thanks to parry scaling to make you uncrittable more easily than any prot warrior or pally ever could dream of. i can’t remember exact dates, but one of the earliest patches in wrath was the infamous DK nerf, where they squashed us into uselessness and the DK up-and-down roller coaster had officially left the station. but the original implementation of frost DPS was a giant two-hander, frost presence, and managing your runes and procs to time those massive oblito-crits.

blizzard doesn’t have a problem with death knights, blizzard has a problem with two-handers, period. the only reason unholy gets two hand weapons is because their weapon is far less important than blood or frost. unholy is basically the closest thing wow has to a necromancer, and if any spec was going to get dual wield it should have been unholy. if unholy focused enough on mellee that their 2h burst damage became a problem, blizzard would probably make them dual wield as well.

the problem is that people complain about burst. nobody likes to get one-shot or insta-gibbed. it’s universal. “oh look, that guy just crit me for my entire HP bar, how awesome!” -said nobody, ever. every time any class or spec excels in burst damage, it gets nerfed. into the ground.

Arms warriors, i feel your pain!
“Remember, remember, the 5th of December,
The patch day treason and plot.
I see no reason, for MS and Cleavin’,
Since Tseric wants us to spec Prot.” - Vortigen"

the thing is, burst is only an issue in pvp. i don’t care about pvp, i want my big bursty 2h frost back like i used to have. for years it’s been apparent blizzard should just run two entirely different scaling paradigms for PVE and PVP. i think eventually they will, because it’ll be the only way to balance a fun PVE experience with a fair and even PVP one

[Eonanus-dalaran]

The name is a bit nonsensical if you actually think about it beyond the surface level.

It was found in frozen cave… dudes you have to fight for his hammer all frosty.

The throne was even frozen.

Arthas eyes glowed blue.

Your logic is nonsensical.

Still love you bro.

[Eithris-doomhammer]

You say “wrong” but can you prove this in any sort of way? Frost had multiple dual-wield talents, and mechanics to back up the usage of those weapon types.

wrong. check out the original death knight talents from wrath. wotlkdb("dot"because i can’t link stuff? wtf)com/?talent#j frost had to take an actual talent to make dual wield viable.

we were designed for 2h in all specs and given a talent for dual wield just to give people options. the talent was “nerves of cold steel” and increased our damage with 1h weapons to make up for the drawbacks of dual wield. people complained because of PVP where our cc/slows combined with 2h obliterate was extremely overpowered. the massive burst capability had more to do with how damage scaled with attack power and the high weapon damage of 2h weapons than the class design, and instead of fixing weapon scaling they nerfed the class.

[Draith-emerald-dream (Draith)]

You say “wrong” but can you prove this in any sort of way?

History proves it dude, I’ve actually played DK since “day one” (like you said before) Day one being the beta of WotLK and onward. Each spec for DK (Blood, Unholy, and Frost) all 3 specs could DW, 2H, and Tank back then… It didn’t change until later. Do your homework and you’ll see that i’m correct. In fact Unholy DW proved to be so Over Powered that they had to quickly change it with a patch. So yeah my claim actually holds up as TRUE… sorry chief you lost this round… On to the next

Again, you say “wrong” without actually disproving my point

Ha Ha Ha! And once again you’re wrong. I didn’t have to “disprove your point” because your point was invalid. You said that Arthas was more UH than Frost and I merely said that is false because the Lich King embodied abilities from all 3 specs (Blood, Unholy, and Frost) yeah he wasn’t the “lich king” until the Frozen throne, back in WC3 he was just a DK. And yes he used a lot of UH abilities, (Not all UH though, if I really wanted to prove you wrong technically I would point out that one of those abilities was called “Death Pact” which is still used by DKs from all 3 specs today. However let’s not get too technical here… back on topic) Merely saying he (Arthas the LICH KING, not Arthas the DK … there’s a difference) is Unholy is not correct. He’s the “Lich King” a former Death Knight who’s now a king with abilities far beyond any mere playable Death Knight in WoW.

One of the Lich Kings abilities in Phase 1.5 and 2.5 is Remorseless Winter, a FROST ability today. He uses a (TWO HANDED) sword called FROSTmorne for crying out loud… In the WotLK Cinematic he’s frozen to a throne, his sword glows blue, Ice is everywhere… he embodies both Unholy and Frost… it can be interpreted both ways… The Lich King is a combination of everything a Death Knight can be… he’s the ultimate DK. He uses a 2h weapon, so yeah it’s perfectly reasonable to say that people who see this strong character that they want to imitate as a 2H Frost wielding death dealer is perfectly reasonable argument, to say otherwise is ignorant on your part. So yeah you lose again… sorry buddy!

“Wrong.” They described an appearance. I noted how to obtain that appearance.

You can ignore the reasons for 2H Frost’s removal all day if you want. That doesn’t mean that they don’t exist, and that the community at large didn’t constantly talk about it’s issues for years. In a multi-player game balance between classes and specs is paramount, and the many issues that 2H Frost presented to balancing just the spec itself, let alone against the rest of the classes and specs, was no small matter. People tend to underestimate how far reaching the effects of sub-specs go, and how complicated it is to design and calculate everything involved.

Nope, I said you were wrong because once again you were telling him to play as Unholy because he would reach his desired goal to be like Arthas and he and I both have explained to you already why that isn’t a reasonable answer. Trying to deflect the topic of conversation to class balance isn’t going to help the fact about how wrong you were to make that comment in the first place.

But speaking of class balance (and this is opening up an entirely different rabbit hole to go down) Blizzard had tons of options to balance the spec without cutting out 2h and taking away a play style that many people enjoyed.

Granted removing 2h Frost isn’t “game breaking” however it’s the same mistake other gaming companies have made in the past and lived to regret it, the biggest one that comes to mind is SWG’s “Combat Upgrade” where they totally changed the way every person in their game played the game… it ended up killing the MMO, they lost a large amount of their player base after that and ultimately they pulled the plug on it to make room for SWTOR.

Now granted we are only talking about one Class and One Spec here in WoW (2h Frost DK) but it’s still the same mistake, you change a play style that people have grown accustomed to playing for a far less popular one, you’re going to get backlash from people who dislike it.

In this case the blacklash from the people who miss 2h frost is far greater than the people who enjoy the DW change. Blizzard could have easily found another compermise to fix the issues without taking away a playstyle that the majority of frost DK’s enjoyed.

Once again, you’ve claimed “wrong” without actually making any kind of argument or counter point. The Warcraft III Death Knight was a mounted undead knight who used nothing but Unholy spells, and whose weapon didn’t really impact the theme all that much. Trying to claim that a mounted knight who played a largely support role as a commander of the undead through it’s abilities as a “clear 2H theme” is just really silly. Like I said before, there’s no basis to the “only 2H” claim.

And Once again you’re wrong… there are plenty of basis for only 2h Death Knights in WC3 and even before that. Heck I remember in Warcraft 2 when the DK’s were souls of Orc Warlocks put inside the bodies of dead alliance troops. They all road along their undead steeds as well (If my memory serves me correctly, their Icon shows them using a sword, not two swords in each hand but one sword while fighting from horse back) But being mounted had nothing to do with our argument. (nice attempt at deflection on your part though) the point is they have a VERY clear history of using 2 handed weapons (Or only using One Sword) since “day one” the very concept of Duel Wielding DK’s didn’t come until muuuuuuuch later and it was stubbornly added for God only knows why, by the Blizzard team because they wanted to force a playstyle onto Death Knights who the majority didn’t really care for. (And again he used a majority of Undead ability’s, NOT “nothing but Undead” abilities… again if we are getting technical, Death Pact is a DK universal ability used by all 3 specs today… so yeah man… technically speaking… looks like you’re wrong… again… yikes… this just isn’t a good day for you today is it?)

I’m not asking them to change what they like, or go away. I am asking that they be realistic, and stop trying to rewrite, white-wash, or frankly completely deface the lore because they don’t like it and it doesn’t fit their own head-canon.

But the FACT is they are being realistic. It’s YOU (and those who think like you) who are not being realistic here. Arthas, The Death Knights (From all the games) and The Lich King, heavily imply that Death Knights use Two handed Weapons… Or just ONE Weapon… there’s no history of using two weapons until WotLK… Period… end of story… the Idea of Duel Wild was shoehorned in for WotLK as an alternative play style that not many people really wanted to embrace. From merely a Lore stand point Two handed Frost, Unholy, Blood, or even the Lich King is FAAAAAAAAAAR more within the Lore than Duel Wielding ever was or ever will be… End of Story…

So yeah man, go ahead and reply back with all your ridiculous arguments that hold no merit what so ever… it’s not going to change the Facts and Logic that have been posted here today… I’m sorry that your own “head-canon” is getting in your way of seeing what other people with common scene can clearly see…

[Draith-emerald-dream (Draith)]

I was okay with Frost getting 2h back until lesser DKs began asking for the real DK spec (Unholy) to get DW. The cause lost all of my support at that point.

I understand that, honestly i’m pro 2H DK across the bored. If I had it my way, I would just get DW as far away from all 3 specs as possible… but that’s just me…