Im sorry but Frost was never -INTENDED- to be DW. Back in the day, they could wield all weapon, but that’s like saying Arms Warriors were a DW spec since day one just because back in the day a warrior could DW…as Arms. No. Just …No.
What happened was, lot of DK’s wanted to DW. Because DW is fun. It has a nice aesthetic, and at the time it wasn’s frowned upon for DK’s to DW. So, as is common with the playerbase, we tested and fine tuned things. We found a DW spec, back when there were still talent trees, that wasn’t based on weapon damage, but rather on Howling Blast and a lot of stuff found in the Unholy tree, and we made a pretty ruthless build that got around Blizzard’s intention of Frost being 2-handed.
Blizzard took our efforts and decided that if the community was going to put in that much effort, they were going to make it part of the design. They actually paid attention to their players - except they failed to realize it wasn’t the Frost aspect that was what made it work. Nobody wanted Frost to be DW. We just wanted to DW. We were all perfectly content being 75% unholy and 25% frost - but Howling Blast was a big part of where the damage came from.
So here we are in BFA- Frost should be a hard hitting 2-handed spec.
I would also like to add that you should play the class before posting about it.
did arms have dual wielding talents baked into its talent setup? no
frost had nerves of cold steel and threat of thassarian. Might of the frozen wastes the talent that made 2h frost even semi functional wasn’t added until cata. yes you could equip a 2hander during wrath as frost but it didnt mean that you should much in the way that you could dual wield as blood in wrath but didnt mean it was a good idea to do so. so are you going to also contest that fury was never a dual wield spec because it could choose to wield a single 2 hander despite performing better and having talents specifically aimed at buffing dual wielding? specs that were meant to dual wield always had talents supporting it. frost dks, fury warriors, enhance shamans etc. all have talents or abilities that were designed to specifically benefit dual wielding.
outside of frost spec any time a working dual wield spec emerged blizzard made a point of killing it quickly. multiple cases of dual wielding unholy specs were killed as an example. including the example you gave. this occured again in cata when dual wield unholy reappeared machine gunning deathcoils.
dual wield tanking as a dk was equally bad due to parry hasting still being a mechanic early on in wrath. later expansions when blood became the dedicated tank spec it was still bad due to significant damage loss and no noticeable benefit to doing so. until they finally removed blood and unholies ability to dual wield entirely.
frost has been the only spec they have ever allowed to dual wield effectively because that is what they designed the spec to focus on.
thats a personal opinion please try to remain objective and stick with something you can actually quantify
that would mean you are more unholy than frost at that point. thus why blizzard broke the spec by moving howling blast further down the tree. that denotes their design intent of both specs.
additionally please stop using “we” anecdotal data from the handful of people you know means nothing. the number of people you can possibly speak for is insignificant.
the expansion after they just got done telling you they see it as a dual wielding focused spec and killing 2h frost.
been playing wow since bc. played dk all of wrath till now. your knowledge of the game is also spotty at best given your understanding of how aggro works in this game i would venture you know significantly less about dks than i do.
There is no good reason to not let Frost DKs use 2 handed weapons. They could make skills do dmg based just on attack power instead of weapon dmg, if they want to do it the easy way. PP making excuses for blizz lazy work is just pathetic, so a multi million dollar gaming company is having a hard time balancing a class so it can use more than 2 different weapons on an mmo RPG … No wonder we are at this stage now with BFA, where class design is at its worse.
They could even make different runeforges for 1 handers and 2 handers. Oh no! We can’t have that, because it would be difficult for them to balance it…
Dude they cant even balance specs with the complexity we have now, what do you think will happen if you add extra layers of complexicity like allowing two dif types of weapons to be used?
They can’t because they don’t even try anymore, since pp just take their word on anything without even questioning.
Do you really think they can’t do it if they really try?
They can’t achieve perfect balance, but they way they are going, pruning everything it will soon turn into a moba, because off course its a lot easier to balance classes with 4-5 skills.
They really should focus on class design, because it is seriously lacking right now, sadly we will prob have to wait another expansion for that.
Ive looked at what you have posted in the past and it all contains propaganda agenst Frost DK getting 2handers bias and derailing, also the ONLY 2 people who liked your comment are also the only ones speaking against it on the wow forums do you and Manarri work for Blizzard? (> ^ _^ )>~~~~~ " Stop "~~~*
There is absolutely nothing wrong about wanting to keep dw frost and defending it. A mechanical change is probably required if 2h frost is ever going to be more than a cosmetic option, which is probably hoping for too much.
There is nothing wrong with missing 2h frost and wanting it back either. Personally im in this category. It just felt way more awesome and that matters in a game like this. All we can do is hope.
I am happy to join with you today in what will go down
in history as the greatest demonstration for Frost Dks being able to use 2 handers in the history of our wow forums.
Half a score years ago a great expansion came out in whose symbolic shadow we stand in today in this expansion The battle for Azeroth. This momentous idea is a great and Remorseless winter of hope to millions of Dks who had been
Stripped of their beloved two handed weapon with this withering injustice. It will come as a joyous Death pact to end the long nights of us wonder if we will ever get our two handers back.
But eleven years later the Death knights are still not free to use them.
eleven years later the un-living of the Dk is still badly yearning.
frost Dks are crippled by the manacles of stagnation and the chains of
discrimination. Eleven years later the Dks have been on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. Eleven years later the two handed frost Dk is still languished in the corners of BFAs society and find itself in exile in its own game. So we’ve come here today to dramatize a shameful condition.
In a sense we’ve come to our Blizzard forums to cash a check.
When the architects of our game wrote the magnificent frost Dks two handed spec they were signing· a promissory note to
which every Death knight was to fall heir. This note was a
promise that all Death knights spec, yes ALL Dks specs the unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is obvious today that Blizzard as defaulted on this promissory note insofar as the spec is concerned, instead of honoring this sacred obligation, Blizzard has given the Death knights a bad check, a check which has come back, marked " NOT ENOUGH MINERALS,"
but we refuse to believe that we don’t have enough minerals in the great vaults of opportunity of this community. So we’ve come to cash a check, a check that will give us, upon demand, the riches that we call two handed weapons back to the frost Dk. We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind Blizzard of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off, or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the idea of two handed frost Dks. Now is the time to rise from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path of Spec justice. Now is the time to lift our 2 handed spec from the quicksands of material injustice to the solid rock of existence.
Now is the time to make justice a reality of all of Blizzards children of darkness.
Don’t let this be fatal for the Death knights ability to use two handers. It would be fatal for Blizzard to overlook the urgency of the moment. This sweltering summer of the Death knights legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. 2019 is not the end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the two handed spec will come back, need to shake off the ice and now will be content, will have a rude awakening if Blizzard returns to business as usual. there will be neither rest nor tranquility in the Forums until the two handed frost DK spec is granted existence once again. The Remorseless winter of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our forums until the Dark days of justice emerge.
I wanna be mad at this above post but I can’t stop laughing. Well played sir, well played!
Some points were summarized well, 2h frost or opening the gates to dual wield viability to both specs could mean more work for the napkin math that goes into our sims and BiS options…but I was under the impression that the artifact weapon and super-imposed fantasy visage are what kept DW as DW.
I mean they can take a staff and transmit it to be a dagger and offhand (see blade of xalatath for shadow priests); what’s the harm in at least giving bus the inverse of that in the form of a 2h visage for frost.
new forums wiped all the older posts ive made on other subjects as i have been posting here for years.
please explain how ive been biased as well as i have made a point to only state what i can prove is true on this subject.
also i havent derailed anything as this is still about the topic of the thread. claiming im some sort of blizzard agent though is a personal attack and not relevant to the discussion. please stay on topic.
i dont work for blizzard nor have i ever claimed to. ive taken an objective look at blizzards actions and statements on the subject and come to a logical conclusion that 2h frost is not in the interests of blizzards dev team as they have taken multiple actions since legion to kill it. multiple interviews stating that 2h would not return after legion, or not allowing one handed weapon to 2h transmogging.
as for why there are so few disagreeing? forums are an outlet for upset people. those who are content or happy with dual wield are not going to be here to complain about the spec.
for those that are upset it just turns into a circle jerk of people calling for the return of a system where the spec as a whole was objectively worse off.
Yeah, you mashed oblit and tried to not use howling blast ever instead of spamming howling blast and frost strike without ever using oblit. Of course, DW had a faster playstyle while 2H was slower, but I guess I don’t even know my own class. Oh wait.
“reroll to dk because it’s fotm”. Firstly, dk is THE WORST class you could play in the raid. Secondly, I don’t think you know who I am, so you clearly don’t play a dk either if you participated in the community.
They’re not gonna give 2H dks a differnt playstyle than DW dk, thats why I called it a silly cosmetic change. You want to use 2H weapon without a pet? Play an arms warrior. They do just about the same damage in the raid.
I thought damage was more or less normalized between 2h and dual wield 1h… could be wrong. From a flavor perspective though I agree. Frost fits the 2h model and unholy the dw model.
You tried to avoid hitting Frost Strike because it shared Killing Machine procs with Obliterate. You never want to miss a rime proc. Obliterate scaled with Weapon Damage thus it had a peak, while Frost Strike was free to continue scaling with mastery. The off-hand procing KM was a nice bonus too.
And rerolling to a specific that is just slightly better than Frost is not advised.
At least during MoP-WoD, 2H Frost did actually want to avoid using Rime except during down time or unless it needed the disease back up. Because it avoided Mastery (low damage Rimes) and Rime generated zero resources, Rime was DPS loss if used on proc for damaged instead of prioritizing literally anything else. In SoO specifically, it was absolutely correct to let Rime procs go to waste a large portion of the time because players were Haste capped and could do better things with their GCDs. I know that I showed this with sims a number of times during that period.
I’d just like to see frost viable for raiding again. too much CDs not enough sustain. frost is bs to play at this point and im sad to see where frost is now after being a frost dk for 9 years… 9 years blizzard. you killed my class