It's time for a Shaman Tank @devs

Classes Shaman
41

I mean, while I don’t want them spending dev time on another tank, I have no reason to deny it from those that want it if they put that in the plans.

My gut is that the lion’s share of new spec development, if not all of it, is going to be towards diversifying the support role before anything else. If they decided to make a support tank like a support dps, then I think shaman is the perfect class for that, though I don’t think there will ever be a support tank as it would all but trivialize taking any other tank if they don’t provide the same group benefits while tanking.

It’s an interesting thought, though.

42

Yea with dungeon groups, there is no way to introduce anything other than support dps imho.

Still hoping they scrape aug after this expac and just turn it into a dps. Let them keep one of their buffs like priest PI, enhance WFT, etc.

Too hard to balance with the current spec though.

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43

It’s a bit of a stretch to say that it’s too hard to balance after literally one patch and change of the spec existing.

44

Not really. I’ve said this since they revealed the class. They have to design content around having them, because if they don’t the very nature of the spec is going to be too powerful for “regular” current content, as we are now seeing. So they are going to have to design content around having them, which is just going to make it even harder to find a group for dungeons, increase wait times and put a harder time on dps.

Then we have all the pvp issues, it is just a toxic spec to play against in pvp and i only do shuffles, i cant imagine what its like playing against them in actual arena.

45

They don’t have to design content around having them, they just have to have hard limits on having multiple.

At the end of the day, they can tune Ebon Might to rebalance the spec, since it’s the vast majority of the damage and it comes, essentially, from the balance of other classes. It’s actually a turnkey thing for them to balance. but they get value from having it be too strong for a while, since it gives them a bunch more data.

The only tricky part is going to be around the added survivability they bring, since that is clearly unlocking higher m+ content than we’ve seen before. The damage piece is very easy to tune, though.

It won’t be possible to really know how much they’re breaking the game until RWF happens in the new season after the nerfs they get (which aren’t massive yet).

Blizzard just straight up doesn’t care about PvP, havent for over a decade now.

46

Well having 1 in a 5 man group is already causing huge imbalance issues because the content isn’t designed around having them. So yeah, it already proves content needs to be balanced around having them.

Tweaking numbers isnt going to fix them. There will be no point in bothering to bring them if you don’t actually need them. If they provide zero additional benefits to the group, the class will be dead before the end of the expac.

47

People keep saying this, but it’s completely hyperbolic.

Aug isn’t causing huge imbalance issues in 5 man content… It’s just not. It’s creating a larger delta in the meta (in concert with other VERY strong specs) that already existed. Nothing needs to be designed around them because they aren’t inherently changing five man dynamics.

They’re simply providing enough of a boost to unlock higher keys for the upper echelon than we’ve seen before, which is not all that shocking for being the first spec released in an expac that’s already in-flight, especially given how they work.

You just explained every raid and m+meta that’s ever existed in this game, lol. This applies to any spec at the ultra top end; that’s inherently how metas function. They also have enough in their kit that’s unique for there to likely ever be “zero additional benefit”.

Outside of the ~3400+ players, the demand for augs in groups is largely a community perception issue. You can find +11s that say “need Aug” that don’t even know what they’re talking about.

If they bring them down enough, they may not be so strong that they’re an intrinsic part of the meta…

Neither are enhance shaman, fury warriors, survival hunters, protection warriors, and many more specs that are completely capable of doing very high keys but will never see the light of day in the bleeding edge groups. It has quite literally ALWAYS been that way.

That said, anyone that enjoys playing them and plays them well will be more than capable of doing whatever content they want.

I would encourage you to listen to some top streamers like Max discuss their impact on the game, and not the echo chamber of these forums.

They need adjustments going into next season, I don’t think anyone denies that.There are a lot of ways to mitigate the extra strength they have, and they’re already starting to do it on ptr.

48

I’m not trying to argue with you, I really am not, but…

You are a walking contradiction.

Immediately followed up by…

So they are taking already high tier specs and moving them even further. But somehow they aren’t the issue.

Then you hit us with

As if that is somehow proof that they aren’t broken.

Then

This is my whole point, metas shift all the time, if this class remains how it is, it will 100% always be meta. If they nerf it so it isn’t meta there is literally no point in having a support class. The spec has no place in wow. Content either has to be designed around having one, thus being balanced, or designed around not having one, thus having one being overpowered, there is literally no in-between.

This is correct, but the wow community has always and will always follow the meta. It is the path of least resistance. The fact that you can still do content without them doesn’t change the fact that the tippy top cannot. And everything trickles down from the top, builds, comps, stat prios, rotations, everything. People min/max everything, including but not limited to group comp.

49

we used to have tanking shammies in classic

granted, it was terrible and stupid. But it was funny and possible.

It would be pretty cool to see them have like an earth ele form or something, covered in stone but shaman has been pretty sad and dinky most of this expansion so I’m not sure if that’s gonna be coming anytime soon if ever

50

Lol… You follow this up with telling me that a stance on balance and a stance on the meta delta are the same thing. They aren’t. If you think they are, I’m wasting my time anyways.

It’s not.

This is not a balance issue, specs could be separated by a razors edge and there would still be a set meta.

Never stated it wasn’t an issue, never stated it didn’t need tuning. What I stated was that they have been out for one half of one tier and the keyboard warriors on the forums (most of whom don’t even play the high end of the game ACTUALLY affected by this) demanding they be turned into a personal dps class before any of the multitudes of balance changes that can occur actually get a chance to are creating more of a problem than the balance itself.

Relegating an actual fresh attempt at spec design back to a pure personal dps after this small sample size and relatively few changes is simply ignorant.

51

They use the elements differently than us. So until blizzard says that earth is support only. Which brings up my statement, What better support than a tank?

52

I really think you are struggling to understand what I’m saying. I know there is always going to be a meta, and I know they are still trying to balance the class, whay I’m saying is, it’s going to be impossible practically.

The very nature of the class is designed around them making their teammates more powerful. They will never get to a point where bringing 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps, and 1 aug is a worse than the standard 1 tank, 1 healer, 3dps. As soon as aug doesn’t give the group an overall benefit, no one will bring them, or they will find it very difficult, because why would you bring something if its worse for your group than just another dps?

So either content has to be designed around a group having one to keep them balanced, or they will either be “needed” or stuck on a shelf collecting dust.

Does that make sense?

53

Again, you’re just restating what the meta is. Aug is just a DPS that currently brings too much group survivability. You’re overstating their uniqueness as it applies to that meta. Nothing needs to be designed around them.

And yes, you’re right, if it ever gets to the point where Aug isn’t one of the three strongest DPS options, they will disappear from meta groups.

Much like every other spec in the history of the game does when it’s not part of the meta. Does that mean it won’t still be able to perform well for 99% of content? Probably not.

Clearly, we’re not going to agree. Also, this is a thread about how we’ll never get a tank spec.

54

I know what a meta is, what I’m saying is, this either shifts the meta permanently, or not at all. If it doesn’t shift it at all, the whole idea of a support/buff role dies.

55

wow this thread blew up a ton more than I thought it would. Glad to see there are more out there like me who would really love them adding a tank spec to shaman because it would be really cool and fun. I get the people who don’t think it’s needed but there are people who don’t think bacon is good or don’t want to eat it but that doesn’t make it any less tasty! To each his own I suppose. Blizzard… give us the bacon!

57

Not quite. The “role triangle” was not so clearly defined in hard-printed black & white in early mmo history, off-tanking was an actual legitimate role, so as hybrids which were meant to be able to fill any role to some degree both Druids and Shamans received talents for off-tanking in their melee trees.

Which is what you really need to consider here: Feral Cat and Feral Bear were one spec originally, Druid was never meant to be a “main tank” either, it just ended up working so well in vanilla that it was the second contender after Warrior and it continued receiving support, whereas the tank which wasn’t working as well in Shaman had this part of its identity de-emphasized and then abandoned outright with each expansion.

But in a odd parallel world where Shamans ended up the #2 tanks in Vanilla and Druids the worst, I’m sure we’d be looking at a 4th Shaman spec now with only 3 Druid specs.

All your talk about “lore” and “skill-set” and “the cater to me mindset” is just objectively wrong about the chain of causality which led to this class’s development.

58

I doubt it’s going to ever happen. Convincing devs to give shamans attention that is.

59

Haven’t been playing around with SoD lately, and while I appreciate what it represents which is a refocusing on the Classic experience by injecting it with the ideas from its future. So I’m genuinely curious

Q: How has Shaman tanking been going over there so far?

60

Sometimes i feel like giving vulpera being shamans was really a mistake, jesus christ on a motorbike what are these takes?! Would it hurt you if there will be a tank spec? No? Then what’s the deal, shaman tanks makes sense because it will represent the 4th element : Earth, as far earth element goes in WoW its a tanky element, heck… you already have Shaman tank npcs in zaralek cavern that really tough to kill and pretty tanky using earth spells etc, so the idea is there, also armor wise… we use mail, 2nd best armor type behind plate, how come there’s no mail tank yet but leather has 3 tanks, which is inferior armor type to mail, we need earthern shaman type tank, we already have 3 elements represented (Resto = water, Elemental = fire, Enh = air) yet there is no spec that represents earth, yoi dont want to play shaman tank, dont, no one is forcing you to play it if it comes out, give the people what they want and what makes sense

61

Has anyone tanked with their shaman on SoD??? We’re ready! With OP on this one!

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