Honestly, I feel like this is most of the playerbase, no matter the playstyle.
Sadly, the ones who are louder, are always the ones crying about “someone’s having fun doing something I don’t like and while that has literally no affect on me whatsoever I want you to stop it and then pacify me by rewarding my selfish brat behavior”.
Also, I totally hit your armory to see the rest of that mog and I dig it. Really works on you.
Well actually, you have no proof at all as to what is causing a decrease in subscriptions. None. But there are many posibilities
1). WOW is an 18 year old game in an industry where 5 years is middle aged and 10 is an antique.
2). When WOW started it was one of the only D&D style MMOs. Now there are hundreds of new ones each year
3). There is a trend toward mobile where WOW doesn’t play well.
One thing is is probably not is content. I’ve been leveling alts and the one thing I’ve noticed while going through old zones is that the recent expansions are better than the old ones. Of course people with their heads stuck in nostalgia probably wouldn’t know that.
There are a few reasons.
Granted, correlation does not equal causality but one could infer that poor working conditions, an awful work culture, and a gross mismanagement of staff one could reasonably cite a decrease in the quality of product which in turn contribues to a decrease in active players.
True, the longer something goes on, the harder it is to innovate without turning the product into something completely unrecognizable. There’s a lot of examples that fit this downturn - Doctor Who, Dragon Ball Z, Starwars etc. probably outlived their prime by now.
Some things do last though. But it’s less common in the entertainment industry. iPhones, Windows, more service-oriented stuff like game pass, spotify, etc. retained their relevance surprisingly well all things considered.
I don’t think the game’s age is a death sentence. It all depends on whether the people working on the game have what it takes to remain competitive and receptive to market pressures. Which is why they should absolutely add player housing, by the way.
It’s just overall expensive to maintain an MMO which is why they always fail unless you have a company that happens to be as big as activision (or square) continue funding the project. It’s harder to remain competitive in an MMO space because of how few of them gain notoriety.
Mobile really isn’t that viable for gaming. It’s just a lot more accessible.
I agree with much of what you said but the conclusion is just the same. It’s speculation as to which of these problems caused subscriptions to decrease.
There is no proof at all that the content of BFA and SL are the cause and from my own personal point of view, those are two of my favorite releases.
I like the new expansions over the old ones because of dailies and weekly quests. In the old expansions you would get to a zone, go through it, and there was never a reason to go back and get to know the zone.
Now we get to stay in a zone for a while, learn all it’s intricacies while reaching other goals. That’s a big improvement in the game.
Exactly.
This is unironically the worst argument I’ve ever seen for this camp. As many stated before it’s entirely possible for WoW to cater to both casuals and other players, whatever you may call yourselves.
You should look up the terminology “Zero Sum Game” and how much your line of thinking falls into this category. Which WoW clearly is not, and never has been, because it’s a game designed to appeal to MASSIVE amounts of people, y’know that word in MMORPG.
If you want a game to be massively multiplayer, you cannot appeal to just the hardcore elements of the game, for a couple reasons. For one it creates an unnecessary difficulty curve for new players. So for someone who could be a future ‘hardcore’ gamer could just be burnt out quickly. And secondly, it simply cannot appeal to a large number of people and defeats the entire purpose of WoW as I stated before.
And finally, you are a casual by most measures. And this is by no means an insult, obviously. I am a casual myself. So why the hatred?
Reddit has its own casual discussion now and how people define it there.
Basically: You’re a casual if you have no weekly scheduled time or play irregularly.
eyeroll
I’m so sick and tired of this mentality. It is why I have not logged in for a month, and prolly won’t ever come back.
Lurk the forums occasionally to see what’s happening, but just gross.
Get a life. Realize that not everyone makes this game theirs.
This is why the forums are a mess, because people cherry pick things and without stopping to think, or comprehend what is being said, post coming down on the one they quoted.
Let me ask this:
Did you do dungeons?
Did you do raid?
Did you PvP?
Did you do world content?
Did you do a mix of the above, changing base on what you had time for or did you log in, stand around fishing and just fish, none of the other content, not even posting what you catch on the AH.
Use your brain, realize there is a WIDE range between hyper casual and ultra hard core.
You may in fact be the irrelevant audience here… The want-to-be elitist that denigrates the majority of players. It’s why WoW is floundering at the moment.
The only ones being degernated are those that think “no content for hyper casuals” means no more world content, no more professions, nothing but dungeons, raids and PvP from now on. Those 3 things may be the pillars of end game, to an extent, but they are also built and supplied for by the world content, professions, the AH, etc.
Even I think there should be more things for pet battlers, but maybe limit it to 2 pet dungeons max per expansion in addition to the new stuff brought by the new world stuff.
Let me put it this way, so people can under stand, the kind of thing the OP is speaking out against would be more akin to:
Me: more world content, harder mobs, better rewards, etc
Someone using the “hyper casual” lanble": give us more fishing, and let us gear up from that, screw the raider, give us what we want.
Me: While I would not mind the new fishing, as it can also mean new cooking and crafting mats and such, it should not be a focus for end game in and of itself.
“Hyper casual”: You are just an elitist
Me: give me a break, I dabble in everything, and all capping at what the average player should be able to do if they put their mind to it
“Hyper casual”: whatever you say elitist I just want to get gear from what I enjoy
Me: if you really enjoy it, why do you need gear from it unless you are pushing a harder form of content?
Fact of the matter is, the kind of player the OP is referring to likely does exist but they are in game, seldom if ever on the forums, because they are doing the stuff they like in the game and likely don’t see the need for them to get more content, at least at the cost of content for others. It is the ones that claim labels when no one has agreed what the label means and uses their definition to try and get the game they want when maybe the game they want is already around, they are just too blind to see it as it does not fit their view.
There are at least 2 irrelevant audiences, one is the extreme hard core, world first players, the other is the ones that treat wow as more a simulator or another genre instead of the mix it really is.
I’d argue that the forums (and the world for that matter, but I digress) are a mess because people like OP, and yourself currently, are incredibly condescending to others for no real good reason.
There are great ways to create topics to encourage heated discussion without inflammatory word usage.
But hey, he got the clicks he wanted.
Cute.
Yeah, I read the post, and the way he was speaking to people who just want to hang out and collect transmogs, or whatever they do. And yes, they should be allowed cool stuff also.
Your profile sure says otherwise lol.
sounds kinda like worrying about the neighbors doings, mog
I never said you did not read the post I just hinted that you did not comprehend it, I mean one thing he says is
I even narrowed it down further to those that don’t take part in any aspect of the game aside from just their small niche. Even pet collectors, by virtue of being pet collectors, need to take part in dungeons, raids, etc, even if the do it way past when such are “current”
If I am condescending, it is because someone failed to think. Let me put it this way, The OP was VERY specific in the kind of player he was talking about, you , and others, are going after him as if he is saying all casuals, which BTW no one agrees on the definition of, should not get content.
If you look to be offended by something, you WILL be offended, if you fail to take things with a grain, if not a full shaker, of salt, you will have issues. Maybe the OP meant to troll, but if so you and others are feeding him. I am just blunt and have issues relating to others so I can easily come across as somethings, like condescending, without really meaning to (but I will say that maybe the issue is on both sides, mine and the one that finds me such, when someone does).
The forum is a mess because people like you let your emotions go when you post, instead of reading, analyzing, comprehending and THINKING before you post, it is more or less a text only version of “better to remain silent and have people think you are a fool then to speak up and remove all doubt”.
Could be an alt, or could be just the fact he said he does more then heroic dungeons and fishing but did not say what. His gear is mostly PvP , he has his legos, which means he has done possibly mythic dungeons (not M+) and content to get the items needed to buy the ones from content he did not do.
Really, he could be one of the most casual of casuals, yet a lot here are treating him like some kind of elitist for calling out those who do even less then he does. To put it another way if you are of the mind “if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck” you are blind to the idea it could be a goose or other water fowl or maybe just a different kind of duck.
Counter point about not trying to cater to this appearently tiny minority…isnt this what blizz already does with all those hardcore 1% raiders 
So now we are just splitting hairs on which minority group isnt ok to cater to.
Good enjoy your empty game soon cause most are leaving.
I think the point the OP was trying to make was it is stupid/dumb/etc. to cater to extreme minorities on either end of the spectrum. Most people likely do a mix of content, say normal raiding, M+ up to 10s and unrated PvP or high end arena, LFR and mythic 0s, some might swap the PvP, raiding or dungeons for world content.
If anything, not every game needs to be for everyone, but ones like WoW need to have content for everyone in an appropriate ratio to how much of the player base does it.
So… After how many times exactly is it acceptable to be offended by insults? Asking for a friend.
But anyway. Sometimes it isn’t what you say, it is how you say it.
All jokes aside, he even gave us permission. 
Be offended all you want, I likely am coming across as insulting, but don’t try to pull the argument you did not insult anyone. As what you said could be seen as insulting to others, especially:
Also, a lot of what you quoted was taking out of context, to me that is very insulting, as it makes it look like I am saying things I am not. As a final note on this particular line: one can be offended, but someone has to, eventually, be the better person and either ignore the insults or turn them to their favor, like if I am insulting your thought processes, you could say you try to balance your emotions with your thought process for the best result.
I often say the same thing, but here is the thing, we deal in text and emojis on the forum, without emojis to like /s (for sarcasm) we have no way of really telling hence the need for the grain, if not the full shaker of salt when dealing with the forums.
Yeah, this is what he said in his reply to me:
and he follows up with:
Which is funny because he does not mythic raid, so does he hate himself?