Sub is the bottom spec by far now in PvE… worse than survival.
Sin is 3rd from the bottom… just better than survival.
Rogues are fine, 9.0.5 is right, rogues are good.
7 Likes
BlizZard better pull off some magic for Rogues.
12 Likes
Why don’t you change that chart to boss damage.
That chart just tells me sub/sin are not good in cleave. Also most good rogues are playing outlaw for prog/farm.
That being said, sub/sin’s ST shouldn’t be this close to outlaw. Needs a buff
2 Likes
its the pvp crit legendary, undergeared ppl dying from it everywhere and instead of blizzard fixing the legendary issue they destroyed the class, meanwhile moonkins are bursting 45k SINGLE TARGET on m+ bosses but that’s a non issue for them because it hits whoever rng wants it, imagine applying to a job and telling ppl you previous position was wow class balance :kekw:
A single target spec that rivals cleave classes at best, having an whooping 2% lead on insanely long fights with movement like mythic xy’mox
Aside from not bringing any raid buff because god knows why, we lost spell damage debuff on raids ( now on dh ), and also lost smokebomb raid cd ( -20% damage )
Whoever is in charge of rogue balance either don’t have a voice in the team or is clueless on what the class needs.
Too many devs watching 3k rogue players on twitch instead of watching mage / druids / paladins / dks / Monks, i mean they even buffed war damage lol.
14 Likes
Actually Sin has decent Cleave, its just the dmg is low.
Sub plain doesnt have Cleave
Theres also raid utility into consideration which Rogue has next to none.
2 Likes
lololololo
who said anyone was in charge?
4 Likes
I’m pretty sure Blizz is like rogue? Do we still have that class? I thought we got rid of it after Legion…
4 Likes
Those are logs, and those at the higher ends are often not gonna change specs when they invested alot of time into something else, and are often cheating the top ranks with PI anyway. Its fairly useless data.
1 Like
They need to stop putting rogue as a “utility” class role, and buff their damage as a pure damage dealer. Just look at this board or topic, some rogue players still think we bring utility to the raid.
We don’t have any good raid utility since others can do it better. DK can do the same with a shorter CD AMS, and 20-30x better for group with Zone.
In M+, you don’t need Shroud anymore since they designed the dungeon to have a lot less of trash than BFA, but AMS cheese is always good.
So why bring rogue in?
All the rogue specs need a buff.
Outlaw needs an 8 targets or uncapped Blade Fury to match other classes broken AOE. Outlaw brings Mid-Tier ST and AOE dmg, they are jack of all trades, nothing special since you can just bring in a Monk/Warr to cover for this sub-par DPS. They need to bring back BFA Outlaw gameplay, excel in AOE and cleave.
Sub needs to reduce Shadow Dance CD by 10seconds so the rotation will be smoother for ST and higher uptime for max dps, and a scaling AOE that ranges from +5-20% buff on BP depending on how many targets, less target=higher buff.
Sin needs a big 15% dmg buff across the board, again. This spec only has a number issue.
11 Likes
Keep wishing fam
1 Like
Rogues need help.
2 Likes
Merge the two bin specs into one then maybe it’ll be pve viable? 
If anything that would completely break the spec.
Image having the constant burst of Sub and the sustain of Sin in one single spec.
1 Like
we can only dream of such things
I’d love some more sin dmg buffs or a change to SnD 
You’d figure based on how the PTR forums are all warlocks acting as if their class has been single handedly destroyed by a single ability getting damage nerfed that they would be the lowest on the list.
They’re not even close to any spec not named Outlaw for Rogue.
3 Likes
Pleeeeeease buff sin more.
5 Likes
It drops from pve though?
The pvp legendary is meant to be the vanish legendary.
I think the main issue here is that sin as a whole just doesn’t have anything that synergizes together without making you hard stuck into a talent to make it viable.
Crimson Tempest and Exsanguinate need to be baseline and those talents need to be replaced. And while I’m on the topic of talents, they should be able to change in any location of the game so long as you’re not in combat. This whole rested area nonsense is utter, well, nonsense.
All damage nerfs on sub rogue’s kit need to be reverted and include your cleave buff that you mentioned for BP.
Will we ever see this? No. Why? Because nobody at blizzard PLAYS ROGUE.
Yep one okay spec and 2 garbage ones, seem like rogues are going to get ignored this expansion
4 Likes