I have to kind of agree with this. In vanilla, the game was about the game. In retail, the game doesn’t really begin until max level. Leveling is a chore that must be endured in retail, back in vanilla it was immersion and gameplay. Yes it was ultimately get to 60 and all purples, but the game was enjoyable all the way before you got there too.
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Well I still find the leveling enjoyable, I just also know it’s not at all part of the “progression” anymore.
All of the “you are the hero” content happens in the current expansion and you can’t buy those levels. So the only pay you do is to play the actual game that blizzard is focusing on.
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Gear is going to make a difference in PvP? Lol.
The skilled PvP player has earned his skill over a period of time, during which he has also acquired top level gear. Vs an unskilled player with BiS gear? You don’t seriously believe the unskilled player gains an advantage do you?
I’ve done it several times, so yeah.
edit: Not saying they tried hard, but to consistently beat a person using 445 ilvl gear when you’re wearing benthic gear in m0 is what I’d call winning at this game.
/endthread
Can’t believe there were 603 posts after this.
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608, actually.
Again, gold paid runs have ALWAYS been in WoW. Nothing is different but that people can also buy tokens to use the gold for whatever they want.
Another tinfoil hat theory. Also not what I was meaning. Tons of BOE mounts in game…
No i keep bringing them up because if THEY haven’t changed, its proof it is not P2W because guess what, you couldn’t buy gold before but it still happened. If the community hasn’t changed, but blizz just short changed the chinese gold farmers, you can’t say it suddenly is P2W. You also ignore EVERYONE else that disagrees with you. You have your opinion, its wrong, uninformed, and stinks, but still your opinion. Doesn’t make it right.
You know the other guy won the argument when you continue to take him out of context and argue against points he isn’t pushing. He’s right you’re probably someone who wants the benefits of being able to buy runs for dollars without being accused of being pay to win otherwise you’d address his argument and not construct straw man’s to burn.
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No he hasn’t actually addressed all the people saying he is wrong, or pointing out that no where can you find blizz endorsing paid runs. He is just asininely sticking to his bass ackwards opinion, while messaging me in game then quickly logging off before someone can respond like a child
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Some carriers will guarantee a certain number of pieces.
They will pass loot to you and if you don’t get that, you get another run.
And your side is STILL just randomly making up definitions and adding on-the-spot criteria to what was otherwise a very simple term: Buy in-game advantage for cash = pay-to-win.
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Sounds like you two have previous personal issues you shouldn’t be dragging onto the forums if you misrepresented me the way you did him i’d pm you too. You should try to reread his posts without that personal bias because he’s one of the most reasonable people in this thread
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That is exactly how pay to win works… As others have pointed out to you.
Buy a wowtoken for RL money, turn it into gold, pay the gold to get mythic+ gear/items.
Blizzard simply took out the middle man. You are still paying someone to do it or get it for you, it just isnt putting the money into the pockets of the runners, its going to blizzard instead. Same thing, different source.
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If Blizzard was selling mythic gear directly in the cash shop, then you would have a point.
The big difference is, people selling these run worked, in game, for the ability to do that. Just like they can carry their alts on heroic and mythic farm boss.
They are the ones that win, not the buyer. Gear in wow is only relevant for a few months anyway. What are they going to do with a few 430/445 pieces, win LFR? Who cares…
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there’s two definitions of pay to win considered semi “official”: “pay to have an advantage over other players (which they don’t drops in WoW are RNG based and completely up to luck).” or “a game where a player can pay real money to gain an advatage over free to play players (which we technically don’t have).”. neither definition supports the idea that WoW is pay to win on anything more than a technicality, at best WoW is “pay to win” because you can’t even play the raids without paying a subscription anyways, but that’s pay to PLAY not pay to win.
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if you consider that p2w, it would be for an example among players who play the official retail even from Vanilla Time vs. those who play pirates servers even if it is free they always end up with missing content and toxic GM’s that ruin the game experience unlike what We see each user who bought the game.
But that’s another story, I think Blizzard doesn’t agree that they only win for the WoWtokens or 30 days of subs.
Even if you are right, they won’t admit they are wrong. They want to think WoW is P2W and they won’t take their head from that hole in the sand.
No he isn’t because he is just completely wrong. In no version of definition is WoW P2W and he think because players charge gold for runs and loot chances somehow it is. That is summarization of his post, and it is just factually wrong.It has gotten to the point people have actually came on here with a tinfoil hat “idea” that blizz runs all the boosts…
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Except for the fact I had pointed out differently. Even if we take the “boosters” or “mythic+ runners” out, it is still P2W in a way, as you can sell a token for gold, then buy a high level piece of gear off the AH with doing NO work for it.
How about paying for a level boost? To skip doing alllll of the work to get there? There’s that as well.
Sounds like you are the one with their head in the sand.
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Your side is so inconsistent on definitions that it’s painfully obvious that you’re just making them up on the spot.
Did you look at half the posts from your side that say getting gear for cash isn’t pay-to-win because that’s not “winning” - it’s losing?
I would be a lot more impressed with your side’s definitions if you all used similar ones, but you don’t, because your arguments rely on making up definitions and adding criteria on the spot.
You don’t know that Blizz didn’t just generate their gear and they’re not all Blizz employees.
To say “WoW is not pay-to-win” by your definition, you would have to prove they weren’t. And you can’t.
There’s a tangible, real effect on the game when people can buy advantage for cash. That’s what people are trying to describe when they use the term pay-to-win.
I don’t see the point of letting your side juke the definition until it describes nothing just so you can win an argument.
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If that’s the case, they should change boss kill achievement requirements such that you have to kill the boss while at least half the people in your group are in the same guild as you, and your reputation in the guild is at least honored.
I mean, as it is, you still get “credit” for strangers carrying you.
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Why do you keep trying to get around his argument by parroting this strawman you’ve created? that’s not what he said, that’s not what he’s saying it may have been at one point but like a reasonable human being he looked at the information presented to him and adjusted his argument. Why can’t you do the same?
P.S since you’re someone who doesn’t push mythic content according to the armory what has got you so twisted about this subject? Who hurt you?
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